Messages

46

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 Public Thread - MM9 Expansion

« on: June 20, 2016, 02:02:53 AM »

black skyboxes in maps make me v happy, wily stage 1 is lookin slick af. just make sure there arent too many dead ends, because atm it looks like it might be a little chokey

47

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Leaf Shield)

« on: June 16, 2016, 03:17:54 AM »

What are the goals of this new leaf shield? What is trying to be accomplished and how will map makers determine whether or not to put this in their map instead of say, plant barrier? Treat this shit like a new League of Legends rework, try and sell it to us!

I was putting forth what a few randos and I discussed in a larger group chat. That was not what we decided within the development team to do with the shield.
Additionally, if anyone was going to try and sell you the new shield, it certainly wouldn't be me as public relations are probably my weakest point [as evidenced by the poor wording on my shield proposal summary.]

...?

Do not propose something until you know what the point of it is. Now that I know that even YOU don't know what this new Leaf Shield is supposed to do, I am fully against this new iteration. You need to be asking yourself "what's the point?" and "what am I even trying to accomplish?" multiple times during the development process of a weapon, or your ideas might as well be thrown out the window. Come back with a refined, well-thought out plan of what you want Leaf Shield to be instead of something half-assed.

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Leaf Shield)

« on: June 15, 2016, 09:23:13 AM »

Was talking stuff over Skype, here's another idea we came up with:

-No longer blasts projectiles away.
-Using Leaf Shield doesn't cost ammo immediately.
-Ammo drains while active.
-While the shield is up, the weapon's ammo becomes an extension to your health.
-You cannot pick up items while active.

A bunch of thoughts I have after reading these points. I apologize for disorganization and shitty capitalization.

If by extension of my own health, you mean doom/quake styled armor that takes away a portion of the damage, I personally believe such a design would be more thematically suited toward a different shield weapon, especially one that can more easily communicate such a foreign concept... Which would be junk shield, because that is literally how this quake style armor works.

However, if you mean straight up gaining 30 hp out of nowhere... Be careful. Plant barrier has a problem with people simply running around with it on and not dying, munching hp and ammo. Leaf will have a similar problem regarding this, despite not allowing pickups due to the instant hp gain. It follows the design philosophy of making similar weapons stat changes of eachother, but does Leaf really need to act like this? Was the possibility of deflection/repulsion completely explored? How about battle network or short-lived but rapid shields? If this is the end-all after going through many iterations, it isn't TERRIBLE, but it just seems so funky that Leaf would act like this. Thematically, it should offer no physical protection BECAUSE ITS FUCKING LEAVES, so it pushes things away instead using some... naruto leaf jutsu bullshit idk man.

I'm quite confused by the ammo changes. Doesn't use ammo... but it uses ammo? Is ammo lost when shot? Neat idea, to be honest, but I truly feel like this would be suited to something else. Hell, I could vouch for Water shield using this effect more than i could Leaf shield.

What are the goals of this new leaf shield? What is trying to be accomplished and how will map makers determine whether or not to put this in their map instead of say, plant barrier? Treat this shit like a new League of Legends rework, try and sell it to us!

TL;DR we might need more clarification on the exact machinations of leaf shield. As it stands though, it seems like leaf something needs something more thematically fitting. Also read the couple questions above kthx

49

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8c)

« on: June 15, 2016, 08:33:55 AM »

You have a point, but some problems arise when another person wants to play a class when the current one is already selected. If problems like that reside in only a few classes, it would be more worthwhile to just hit those specific classes instead of limiting them.

We know Wood needs a rework, Galaxy is a little wonky but killable unlike Wood, and Dust (who I also know is a problem in payload) could use a mini-rework anyway (Hold/release dustcrusher like he has in mm4, flak cannon instead of dustbits, and sucking that relies on ammo but is much higher power and reliable rather than trolly (could go more indepth about how i'd see this working))

edit: I'm honestly not a fan of new ground in any sense. Infinite drills are toxic as hell, and the fact that his complexity had to be crammed into 2 weapons is a little unnecessary. I'd recommend just going back to 2 weapons. Overall, he's in the same position as he was before, but now he has overpowered drills balanced out by clunkiness.

50

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Leaf Shield)

« on: June 08, 2016, 02:05:39 AM »

Currently the most glaring problems with leaf shield are duration, and maps themselves.

  -Don't limit counters to fire weapons only, because that severely cuts what you can actually put in the map to counter leaf shield, resulting in some unfitting weapon choices. In a perfect world, maps would only have 8 unique weapons in them, and ideally 2 of them would pierce leaf shield. However, these piercing weapons should not always necessarily be the "main" weapons of the map. If metal blade is the most viable weapon on the map, leaf shield would not be a good choice to put in the map because it would be useless. On the other hand, if metal blade wasn't the most effective weapon on the map (yeah right lol) you could get away with putting in leaf over say, skull barrier.

  -simply have it consume ammo over time like skull barrier, or treat it like mirror buster and give it "charges"

  -remove the throw. I understand the throw is "canon", and a certain jelly-obsessed britannian would be very upset over its removal, but the weapon is already strong as an offensive approach for melee followup, and keeping the silly shield throw only wastes the power budget. Unless you change the throw to a reasonable level and it can be properly be used in combination with melee weapons, it's best to just get rid of it.

  -I wouldn't recommend reducing speed as it's being used, because as Korby mentioned, the player using leaf shield felt bad because they couldn't move. Similarly, the player will not feel good for using leaf shield because they're slowed, even if they ARE blocking damage.

  -remember that leaf shield should be a "stat change" of skull barrier (unless you decide to rework it). Make sure it has a similar playstyle, but give it a few quirks to give map makers options regarding how they want their map to play.

ALTERNATIVELY

-rework the fuckin' thing a little. Instead of making it a skull barrier alternative, make it a mirror buster alternative. Player puts it on, and for the next 2 seconds they have an hp buffer that grants them invulnerability for .5 seconds after being hit. It would deflect bullets back at attackers, and offer players an approach for melee weapons, but at the same time discouraging stalling and running, as it only gives the user a small burst of invulnerability. It also becomes a high skillcap weapon, creating situations where players could create binds that immediately use it, almost like a "guard" button.

-or hell, just make it deflect all projectiles.

tl;dr: keep current piercing scheme but ensure wealth of niche counters, possibly add in projectile deflection (genji style), do not limit movement, remove infinite ammo

51

W.I.P Forum / Re: Gunslingers!! The Cowboy Duelist mod.

« on: June 07, 2016, 08:04:27 PM »

Can't please everyone, but 4 out of 5 isn't bad. still though, give me some more details on these complaints. like what about reloading needs to be fixed beyond the unintentional 2 at a time ammo loading? exactly how is the enemy tracking "horribly coded"?

Reloading all 6 bullets when you've only used 2 seems wonky and unnecessary. Enemy tracking is REALLY laggy in terms of simply moving your crosshair around. Simply flicking your aim a bit makes the reticle-thing fly around until it eventually matches the enemy's location. Bit hard to explain but I'm sure you understand what I mean. Even then, I'm not sure if it's even worth keeping. I think Messatsu's "the hunted" mod made use of a similar system, but only displayed distance to your target, not their exact location. Eventually, with this system of knowing exactly where your enemy is, a metagame will pop up where the first person to move will lose. If there's some ambiguity then I think more risk and mindgames would be involved.

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W.I.P Forum / Re: Gunslingers!! The Cowboy Duelist mod.

« on: June 06, 2016, 10:09:11 PM »

Largely boring and buggy. Fix reloading, remove (horribly coded) enemy sight, add footstep sounds. Needs a lot of tuning before people play it more than once and drop it forever.

53

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8b)

« on: June 06, 2016, 12:00:19 AM »

Wow, excellent patch. I'm iffy on Groundman because I loved the control gained from manual split, but maybe streamlining is for the best. Once I crank out a few hours on him I'll let you know. Everything else is in the right direction, including Skullman, who is fantastic, but may need some more followup/tuning (I want a reset class pls)

54

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8b)

« on: May 23, 2016, 07:07:24 PM »

The patch to balance stuff is called "bandaid" and is a lot more enjoyable than vanilla CBM -- you should try it some time.

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Projects & Creative / Re: [Expansion] Cutstuff Community Classes (Prism Alpha)

« on: May 21, 2016, 03:48:53 AM »

shoDark was some batshit stupid design, i can try to remake him if you want me to

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Skins & Bots etc / Re: DA's Cloning Facility (Revamped page, also 4 new skins)

« on: May 16, 2016, 07:04:20 PM »

HE'S BACK

HYYYYYYPE

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Pharaoh Shot)

« on: May 11, 2016, 11:47:22 PM »

Pharaoh Shot's explosion radius has a 128 unit radius.

What.

Okay seriously, that's too much. I don't mind the idea of an AoE effect for this weapon, however:
-128 radius sounds too high, especially compared to Drill Bomb.
-There's no clear indicator that it explodes. This causes confusion to unaware players when they take damage from a near miss, and when they take damage after blocking the attack with Proto Shield. This is an example of bad game design.

The above needs to be fixed up. I've also never liked how the fully charged shot overshadows the uncharged and mid-charged shot. Not certain on how to go about this. Maybe speed up the less charged shots?

128 radius is NOT too high lol idk what you're talking about. I think your opinion of the explosion range will be changed once you start to play with explosion fx on. It's NOT going to be a problem with a couple other fixes in place, and by decreasing the range you're really just making the weapon less fun/unique.

Protoshield won't block explosions -- this is something the player will learn very quickly. It's not bad game design, just a little miscommunicated for the first 10 seconds it happens.

The weapon isn't supposed to be used actively in terms of low/mid charge, nor should the focus of the weapon be divided up like that. There's enough strength in tossing out a mid-charge shot when the opponent is expecting a big charge in .6 seconds, and iirc the small shots already do 12, no?

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Pharaoh Shot)

« on: May 08, 2016, 02:18:13 AM »

nvm im fucking stupid LOL I FORGOT WE HAVENT RELEASED THAT YET

ASK MUZ ABOUT IT LOL

EDIT: OK GO LOOK AT MPBX INSTEAD

59

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Pharaoh Shot)

« on: May 08, 2016, 12:06:38 AM »

I only think the explosion range needs to be shown for the weapon to be better. A lot of the power lies in its ambiguity. On death, spawn a MUCH larger sfx of PShot growing in size where the explosion is. Refer to Muzaru's CBM Bandaid patch for what I mean.

edit: mess has an excellent point for rewarding direct shots. reducing the overall damage + AoE for indirect hits, but increasing dmg + AoE + making AoE have consistent damage for direct hits.

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Search Snake)

« on: April 25, 2016, 04:04:09 AM »

Search Snake's most infamous problem is that its opponent can simply hold the spacebar to render the weapon almost entirely useless.

Popping in to say that this is a complete lie. Please do not think this.

The snakes don't come slow and one at a time -- people shoot them in massive barrages that sneak up on you and ruin your whole day... or at least that's how it works in CBM. Search Snake only sorta fulfills that fantasy in vanilla. It works, but the problem isn't what you think it is. The lack of control disallows any variance in playstyle (HUGE FUCKING WAVE vs indirect combat, or aiming high vs aiming low, respectively). The set height at which they fly makes them hard to lead into people, making most people put the weapon down for something much simpler like PShot. Allowing the player to aim the snakes lets them use the weapon how they want -- something not necessarily fleshed out in vanilla 8bdm (most weapons do one thing and one thing only).

The only things you should consider touching are aiming (which is already 90% chance of being implemented as I can see), damage (reduce to 15), and RoF (increase considerably). Let players decide what they want to do with the weapon: create big waves and force the enemy to jump right as you use GHold, stack 7 of them for an ohko shot, or do something inbetween. The ability to aim the snakes is an extremely powerful buff to an already criminally underrated weapon. Indirect combat is strong, and 4koing people from god-knows where with a massive barrage of snakes can push the weapon over the edge and turn duels into even bigger campfests.