6. MM6TOMX is huge. I though we all told Kunx not to make such a massive map.
All, as in, yourself. Because the only other person I heard was Ice, who made a useful review. Oh, and it used to be a LOT bigger to the point that it was unplayable from FPS lag. I could understand that, so I cut it down until it was. Complaints about it being "huge" is not a real problem unless a LOT of people come saying that, so we'll see.
I could understand tryin' to make a map that is not small like MM6TOM, but for a good big map, look at MM4PHA, MM5STA, MM6MRX.
I found it was better to look at the original MM6TOM and make some nods to it in the remix while bringing new things. I don't look at any other maps unless I'm re-mixing one to keep things interesting, not redundant.
And anyway, I'm not making any changes now until I get more replies.
Ah, this post is informative. I'll respond to both players here.
Savior, you misinterpret the point of CSCM. It is a map pack used primarily for roboenza on Mess's server (whether it was intended that way or not, it has become that way in both general map design in the pack: large maps with questionable weaponsets AND maps that are primarily only seen in Roboenza due to hosting/popularity reasons). I would reason that during periods of activity, Mess's server averages around 15 people(as in, 10-20 during gameplay). Playing on stock/stock-sized maps can get repetitive. Cut Man is the obvious example: Matches will end in under 60 seconds, be it the zombie is mobbed instantly or the mob becomes a zombie. This is why CSCM12-14 get mapvoted the most - size. So for the purpose of DWRage, a map like Ice Man X is more interesting than Dark Man X, even if DMX is a more "traditional" map. The map would be terrible for duel - no one in their right mind would host CSCM in duel! (you even have me dueling on Fire Man X in a total nonsense-fest) Now considering the map in this light, it makes a great deal more sense. I considered the original map passable as is(apparently not due to FPS) and the downsizing as simple tidying. I said that because the map would be played on a server that mostly had 12+ people. On the other hand, I do not consider MM4PHA or MM5STA appropiate sizes for most remix maps. A few, such as MM1DW1X or TOPX etc. would fit in that size but those maps are more "medium". The term I suggested for the Remix maps was "Redux" but the idea I would suggest is "supersized". mm1dw1x, MM2DW1X, MM1BOMX/CUTX/ICEX (yes, even ICEX!), DC1X, PHAX (damn I really should give Mess more credit) are great examples of this. elex, neex, etc. not so much.
Mess, I've noticed ya butchered plenty of maps in the past without the creator's consent, so I assumed that ya would continue to do so.
Ya know, for the most part that line is BS. In 95% of cases I get the creators permission to make modifications. There are some times where I cannot contact them in a given time frame, but on a whole that is what I try to do. (Centaur man remixed had gravity hold on the floor originally, kinda a problem) I will never make LARGE changes to a map without getting explicit permission though. It's one thing to swap out a gravity hold, or make a top spin harder to obtain. It's completely different to rework the flow of a map by adding or removing rooms. Some people I am more comfortable making changes with than others, it depends on the person. Most of the time I just fix up textures and sectors where necessary.
Skuuuuuulllllllllll Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! (cough) There's your 5%, heh. Actually though I will defend Mess on this one - while sure, it would be nice to make the maps more non-roboenza friendly and have Mess patch them up when necessary, if Mess did so it would encourage map makers to submit low-quality maps with the expectation of Messatsu fixing them, MORE than he already does. Say Mess had fixed CSCM13's numerous problems in the 1st release, such as lack of shading, lighting, or non-retarded transitions between rooms. It would set a bad precedent - someone would be content sending a garbage map to Mess, instead of fixing it and learning the know-how.
and it would have stupid gimmicks like teleport destinations on top of tall pillars with a power weapon. Mess can help the other half this implication, of course, by demanding map improvements BEFORE release - which I believe is going on now. After all, half the motivation to improve a map is gone after it's been "accepted" into the standard 8BDM Map pack! Since before you had to scrape the floors for boring maps like CSCM01-08 (don't remember what 09 is but it's probably equally forgettable), but now everyone wants a piece of the action. So, I'd suggest, Mess, (lol random 2nd person switch) you choose between the two paths that regard to size:
1) "Size is good!" route: Work to get as many maps in, by helping new mapmakers push those "struggling" maps into "passable" area.
2) "Size is bad!" route: Size will probably become an issue soon, so instead: look at CSCM01-08 (jesus, what IS 09!?) and say: "Do I really want all these maps to be considered acceptable? (even if I made them)" Everyone likes CSCM04 so keep that one, expanding the interior halls of course to make it more 20-person friendly, and CSCM06 since that's a classic. I can make a long argument against the "first set" if you'd like to read it but the main one is: They're all basically the same "retextured donut" with relatively little difference in overall layout. Since you like the public opinion (I'm not a huge fan lol) you could put up a poll saying "Do you want all the original maps kept?" in which people will pick either option 1 or option 2 above in their reasoning with Option 1 being those "I like everything, everyone is good!" people.
That wasn't the actual route 2, it was a tangent about squeezing down CSCM. What I MEANT was: rather than reserving map rejection for MTH/ozx-style maps, you'll get a little tighter control as to encourage only higher-quality maps. Still no skulltag, but I'll be curious to look at quix when I can. I really want to post a screen of PHAX and caption it "This is interesting map design" but I'll save it until the coup de grace is necessary.
Clearly my map is perfect because no one complains about it
Your map is a massive improvement over Olive Stakehouse(that silly donut map). Well done, Korby!
No one has posted? Bah. Anyway, here is the map. Its still not done but I'm leaving for a week so I getting all the feed back I can while I can't work on it would help. That being said, I NEED feedback.
Direct a command to no one, and no one will answer. (hint: the bystander effect, it also won't save you from rape/murder/subway trains etc.) You want real-live testing, go to a skype chat and post it there. That way, it's not "released" (and is still a virgin map) so people won't complain it's unfinished. However, if you want people to look at your map before it's finished, I would still recommend finishing it up as much as possible. You can't feedback what's not there. Most people who play it will simply say "it's good" or "it's not good/I don't like this one part" which don't really help you much. You want help in an area, be specific as possible and address a mapmaker and they can give you better help when you narrow it down. You want pure ideas I'm your man, but I have no skulltag right now so I'm no more man than some roll skin users. Oops. The other thing being: this is not really a topic to get feedback on maps that exist outside the pack (SSW has explained this to Beed), so I wouldn't look for it here. Tralala!
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