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Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3bh + B-Patch
« on: September 13, 2014, 02:04:21 AM »
Ah, I must have forgotten to make one. I'll add a bot for King next version then.
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Coldman is in need of a tiny buff, particularly speaking of his alt. Whenever I freeze someone with it, it's nearly impossible to follow up with an Ice Wall because the stun will fade in mere seconds, allowing my target to escape. The cooldown for his alt doesn't help either in time for me to get a good attack. I suggest that Coldman's alt should either have increased stun time or a decreased cooldown.
Skipping over whatever is going on in those last few pages with Rozark, can Dive Man's missiles get a buff? He has trouble dealing damage with either of his attacks, since one of them is slow and shoot-able and the other is kind of hard to control. I know how crazy Dive Man was in previous builds/KY classes, but now he doesn't really have anything going for him. There's no real draw to playing as Dive Man other than to sit in a corner and see if you can pester someone with Dive Missiles, and then dash away if any other class starts coming near you.
I'd probably just make them a tad faster since it's difficult for them to even get to their target without being shot down or running out of range. The damage is fine, it's just hard to get them to hit in general.
My bad lol(click to show/hide)
Not that I have anything else to contribute to the discussion but um... *cough*
Quote from: "Shmeckie"People hate this mod? Huh. That certainly doesn't explain the two highly active servers that host it...
1) Fyone and Stonefunk host the servers.
2) You forgot how MM8BDM works: People go to the server with the most people, regardless if they like the mod or not. Get at least 10 people in Screw Scramble of all things and you'll see that server fill up quick too.
This statement literally makes no sense at all, what about the people that started the server? What about the first 10 people? How would a server even get 10 people on the server if people didn't like it? How would Justified have full servers everyday if this wasn't the case? I definitely don't see Screw Scramble full everyday...Quote from: "Shmeckie"We're not in the business of playing the mod for you. We're just providing the tools. If you're not using them to their fullest, you won't do as well. But that's not the fault of the mod, or the devteam.
1) You forget that I'm not the only one saying things, there's at least 4-5 other people who have expressed the same things as I have, many more who don't feel like posting in this topic.
2) You WILL do as well if you use the most efficient attack.
3) The Developer Goal not matching the Player Goal is the mod/devteam's fault.
"at least 4-5 other people", the only people that have expressed the same things you have are ForteGigas and Korby. ForteGigas gets literally all of his balance from bots which is an invalid source and Korby barely plays Justified Classes as far as I can tell.Quote from: "Shmeckie"We're all for feedback if there's a legitimate issue beyond hypothetical scenarios from people who don't even play the game, or primarily play against bots. If someone comes to us and says something to the effect of "hey, people are picking Quint for braindead win streaks, he's overpowered" we're all ears. Or if we're in a server, and everyone, during play, is making a consistent complaint about something, we take note. But if someone's complaining about a character being underpowered because they personally don't do well with them, or overpowered simply because they have a strong attack regardless of the situation that attack requires, not so much.
1) These are legitimate issues.
2) These scenarios are real.
3) I've stated multiple times that I play this game and sometimes alias when joining a justified server. Read please.
4) Bots can be used to determine damage values. You're literally saying ring boomerang isn't overpowered because bots use it.
5) If you were all ears then you would've read the Pluto complaints about "braindead win streaks". You're a hypocrite.
6) "Listening to people on servers is also not such a good idea, neither is someone dominating with a class so they can nerf it"
7) If people are picking Quint for braindead winstreaks, that falls under "someone complaining about a strong attack regardless of the situation that attack requires", which, if I recall, you take note. However, you just said you don't take note. Which is it?
Listen Rozark, if your scenarios were real and were legitimate Shmeckie and I would've seen them at least once or twice since we play the mod more than you do. We would've heard more complaints on servers that Pluto is OP, like Coldman and King. We also would've seen a lot of people spamming the life out of the class in servers and doing really well, but we haven't. "Listening to people on servers is not such a good idea, neither someone dominating with a class so they can nerf it", did you make up this quote because I don't remember Shmeckie saying this.
Are you done being difficult Shmeckie? Because all I've read from you is:
A) Asking for, then refusing, feedback from not one, but at least 5+ different people.
B) Refusing to acknowledge that I play this game and that my feedback is useful.
C) Refusing to acknowledge that the developer goal isn't being played out and then fixing it.
D) Refusing to acknowledge that your tester's sense of balance might be a bit off, however, you're doing this so you don't have to rebalance the entire mod.
E) Still advertising your Justified classes when all I want to do is play some freaking Vanilla TLMS.
Listen Rozark, your feedback hasn't been useful in the slightest and never has in the past. A proper criticism states what's wrong and then a suggestion on how to fix it, I haven't seen this from you instead all I've seen is complaints with little evidence. I would gladly rebalance the entire mod if it was necessary but it isn't, if you wanna name more classes you think are imbalanced go ahead, also say what you would like to see changed and not something vague like nerf or buff the guy. Try and explain how you would want to see him buffed or nerfed like: make his mainfire do more damage or lower his speed. Also I definitely don't advertise Justified in other servers and I don't even see Shmeckie join other servers so I'm not sure what you're talking about with us "advertising".
For example, Slashman. He has all those knicknacks and jumping abilities to use at his disposal, but consider this; a slashman that knows how to aim jumps. SUDDENLY, he's flying all over the place, impossible to hit, and he instantly murders you the moment he falls. And for the information of you guys here, that slash dash is a lot more useful than you guys say it is. 'Used mainly for ambushes' simply isn't true, even though that's your INTENTION. I've seen entire teams dominated by one guy who spams the slash dash and, not to sound rude, he wasn't on par with the guys fighting in terms of skill. He simply aimed, dashed, and got kills. This 'ambushing' aspect is completely thrown out the window by the fact that he has a)Normal armor, and b)Moves fast as hell while using it. Did I mention he can slash immediately after it's finished, leaving you pretty much fucked even as a tank class?
OK first of all, no one said the slash dash was made for ambushes; I use it all the time. I've also never seen any problems with Slash Dash myself in terms of abuse-ability and definitely never seen a guy kill whole team with him that "wasn't on par with the guys fighting in terms of skill". I also know from previous posts from you James that you're swayed a lot if a guy keeps killing you with a class i.e. Buster Rod G who I know is definitely balanced and based on your past post about the same thing where you complained about a guy in duel using the slash dash. Nonetheless I'll check for myself to see if the slash dash is all that bad with Clay later just to be sure.
Another example, Shademan. Whoever coded his flight needs to look at it, since (Again, not to sound rude) any butthead who knows how to use the flight can decimate an enemy team. His dive saps HP, and can immediately be used again if he comes in contact with ground of any sort during it. Not to mention he can use his noise crush while in midair.
As of v3 Jupiter and Shademan's flight was nerfed, so you can't immediately use it again when he comes in contact with the ground.
A final example, the most brainless of them all right now; King. I know I'm beating a dead horse with this guy, but something needs to be done. For starters, that jump slash is an instant kill on nearly anything, and even if he misses he can instantly slash normally once it's done. And he doesn't even need to take that high a leap; a simple hop will do. Coupled with his speed, that's all kinda of borken. Secondly, his shield is complete ass by itself. It's exceedingly hard to aim, barely blocks projectiles (Fought a Flashman, shoot THROUGH my shield with his buster most of the time, shield barely reflected some of his shots) and the damage doesn't warrant use of it. Third, that X attack. That thing hurts WAY too much for something that spammy. I don't care if it branches off at a certain distance; simply turn before you fire and limit gone. I was able to completely obliterate a hardman, a HARDMAN, in nearly an instant because of this X attack. She fought valiantly, but even though she hit with all she had, my X attack simply does too much damage to warrant my giving a shit for her puny attempts to kill a broken class. THEN, THERE'S THE DASH. It reflects things. Why? Why does it shoot things back at my enemies? I've essentially made classes like BRG useless with it, and in some instances, made it completely backfire on him (ice experienced these things firsthand; sorry buddy). The thing has wonky-as-hell hit detection, since I fully charged into a Groundman and only hit him once, while an Elecman couldn't move even when I accidentally dashed past him. Last, but certainly not least, we have the laser. This thing is spam taken to another level. Simply look in someone's general direction, spam the laser, and get kills. It's a fucking GEMINI LASER WITH A DAMAGE BUFF. AND IT DOESN'T EVEN USE AMMO.
OK first of all, we all know that King is OP, though some of things you're saying is wrong. Shield form's shield barely protects anything unless you're holding mainfire, we did this so that it's not abusable (similar to Knightman). I also disagree with X attack being OP since you can barely move while using it so it makes you completely vulnerable as such and also give a warning sound before using it as well as has delay before shooting. The dash isn't being nerfed either because it needs all your ammo to use and I have no idea what you mean with "wonky-as-hell hit detection". Also the laser does less damage than Geminiman's laser and it doesn't last as long, just sayin'. As for nerfs, we're gonna make you need to have a full jump to use the mainfire (if we can pull off the code dunno), ground slashing is gonna have a RoF nerf and you're gonna stop longer after hitting the ground when using the vertical chop. Vertical chop's gonna get a slight damage nerf so it can't OHKO. Altfire's gonna use ammo so that you can't use the fully charged mainfire as much and we're gonna try to change the invincibility when switching weapons to an armour buff instead.
You guys talk of putting everyone on even playing fields, and while I respect that, that's simply not happening here and you guys need to get cracking on it.
We've already known about King being OP for a while now and he will be nerfed next version since I've seen for myself numerous times and have seen a bunch of people complaining about the same thing; I disagree with the rest of your complaints though.
no one is going to use the rest of slash's kit if his mainfire is a 2hkoAlso you need to stop fighting bots and play against people online. There's no way that you can just only use Burnerman's mainfire online because you won't be able to get close enough to hit people with it half the time. Burnerman's isn't a speed demon like Quickman AND he slows down when using his mainfire. You're gonna have to close up the gap by throwing grenades and then go in with the wave burner unless you're camping. BTW the grenades had a speed boost in this version, so they are even easier to use now too.
[10:03 PM] Fyone: And yes the dash is like a 2hko if the guy's against a wall.
does THAT much damage, wall or no wall (It doesn't matter if there's a wall, just go through the guy), and has homing shots, then yes, something IS wrong with Pluto.
[10:30:12 PM] Rozark Kyouko: You may intend for the dash to be a risk-reward melee attack, but it isnt used that way
One of your goals may be to create some sort of strategy in a classes mod. That is the developer's intended goal. However, the players use the most efficient way of killing things and use only that, making other things useless. So, what do the developer's do? Well, they usually either buff the weak points or nerf the strong points to create a fun and balanced gameplay system. This doesn't seem to be the case here as the developer's claim to enter the servers to gain information on their mod. However, as most of us on the servers know, while they do occasionally ask things, the main purpose of those visits is to further advertise their mod in an un-fun way. We're sick of that. It isn't helping anything; you're just annoying people. If they truly watched how players play, they'll notice the same trends I just brought up.
Pluto's Dash needs to be looked over while most classes need a shift in power so one aspect of the class isn't dominating over the other aspects.
Also, Buster Rod G's clones recharge extremely quickly for something that's a homing (slightly) ripper that can instakill if used up close. A slight nerf to the recharge rate would be nice.I'll check on this just in case though I never found this to be an issue personally.
I think King's camra is to high. This is where his shots come out of.Actually, the shots are supposed to come out of his forehead like in Megaman & Bass. If I'm mistaken and you're referring to the shots not coming out of his forehead but instead higher I'll lower where they fire slightly.(click to show/hide)
Fyone was camping harder than Michael half the timeThis is false since the campfest started when Michael camped in the cave and got around 3 frags in a row due to me taking the offensive and chasing instead of leaving him to camp in the cave. I then later camped outside waiting 'till he came out (which he never did; so every time I had to be the one going in and trying to snag a frag).
I watched as he literally stood still waiting for Michael to approach
while Michael kept hopping back and forth and attempted to pepper with Drill Bombs
Quote from: "Clayton"the new ones are far superior in every way. The skin change was very much necessary as was all the others (especially the Megaman & Bass ones).
I wasn't going to partake in any sort of argument in this thread, but this actually has to do with the core too, because your[collective] skins were denied for that due to inferiority, usually for lack of quality.
Alright, firstly I don't get why when I first sent these sprites to the core why no one said "why" the skin had a lack of quality instead you say all of these issues after the skin is used in Justified Classes.
So this is a few frames from your Duo walking animation.
A) This is one of MANY inconsistencies; The power fist is at a different elevation on your side sprite than on your 3/4 sprite. There are many many many more examples of this in your sprites for this skin, and several others, including but not limited to Coldman[who has an incredibly ugly back/r hit frame, by the way.], Burnerman[specifically, his spinning and jumping sprites. His spinning sprites particularly completely change shape depending on what direction you're looking at.], and Groundman[why is the difference between his 3/4 and side digging sprite that one is tilted up more; more importantly, what the hell is his left arm coming out of in the jump frame]
Again here, if I miss inconsistencies with parts of the skin why wasn't I told that when I first sent the skin over? That aside there are numerous inconsistencies that appear in skins that are in the core all the time yet you still think they have the "quality" you speak of:(click to show/hide)
Burnerman has literally 3 inconsistencies in just one instance, his head is not consistent, his torso is not consistent, and lastly his foot ring thing is not consistent. Magicman's magic wand's stick portion isn't consistent as well. These are just a few inconsistencies that I found that are also in many other skins. Also is that the only ugly frame on my Coldman? Because I can safely say that every back/r frame on the core Coldman looks just as bad. I never made any extra frames on any skins so I can't speak for those mistakes, however let me just say that all of those other issues are very minor due to how long they'll be shown in-game (especially Groundman).
B) this is more nitpicky, but there's two different shades of blue going on in here
Disregarding this.
C) given the angle we're looking at it, which leg is forward, and which is in back, shouldn't we be able to see more of Duo's crotch armor in this pose? You have a single blue pixel there when you could easily have more.
Again, could've been fixed rather easily if I had known about the issue when I first sent off the skin.
D) This is a potato on his hand. To expand on that thought, it looks like a potato. One of the main problems your sprites have is you try way too hard to put too much detail into areas where they don't belong[see: coldman], and your rotations also generally look freaking weird. see next image for scary tentacle hand
[his eyes are white because he realized his hand looks like bacon]
I am aware that this issue is also in core, but it looks less like bacon due to the additional cyan on the lower part of the hand, signifying more of an arm.
I will say that I appreciate that your Burnerman actually, you know, walks, but assuming all of your sprites are better in every possible way is both conceited and nearly impossible.
I do have to ask why you decided to make Coldman taller when he's pretty darn short in game.
I also have to ask why you made Pirateman shorter and added gray to him[and like three other people].
Duo's hand in that image is almost identical to the back frame one so I assume you think that one looks like a potato too? Please enlighten me with what areas you think have too much detail on Coldman, please provide some examples for where my rotations look weird also. Disregarding Burnerman here because the core one has the same problem. Also I increased Coldman's size because he was that size in Megaman & Bass compared to the rest of the Robot Masters:(click to show/hide)
Also, my Pirateman is not "shorter" and I swapped gray with that pink colour that was used in the core because the gray is more prominent than the pink in all of his appearances. Gray was added to Magicman so that his cards looked more like cards and Groundman so that his treads looked more like treads.
To finish off my post, have a monstrosity.
"kill me"
Even my brothers and I knew that our Hyper Storm-H looked bad (was just a placeholder), kudos to pointing out the obvious though.
