Messages

121

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 28, 2014, 07:24:34 AM »

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.

You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.

Anyway, I can't believe it took me this long to notice all the pickup weapons are removed from each stage and the reason why...

Oh my god I love you guys.

This mod makes me feel like a kid again!

One thing; the copywep classes' charged shots need nerfing. They do so much damage there's little point in even switching weapons. Several players got by just by spamming charged buster shots.

122

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 28, 2014, 04:12:02 AM »

That's a damn cool gesture Musashi! Also happy to hear Punk's getting the ammo buff he needs!

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

123

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 27, 2014, 08:44:13 PM »

I want to reiterate my earlier point about Punk. Played some online matches with him, and that high ammo consumption really does hurt him. He can't handle himself in a firefight with any Robot Master with infinite ammo, he's always at a disadvantage. If not completely in half, at least having him use 1/3 less ammo should help him out. Love that cannonball bounce, though. Adds new options for his signature attack!

Also just wanted to say I love this Cloud Man. Way better than vanilla classes!

As for Bubble Lead, what I think might help would be to have it fire slightly downward, so he doesn't end up lobbing bubbles over people's heads.

124

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 27, 2014, 09:43:05 AM »

Played a little more against bots since I found out the MM3 bots have their appropriate weapons. Are you guys trying to make the bots behave like their AI from the NES games? Because that's pretty damn awesome, a nice touch, and adds to the already high polish of this mod.

Don't really have a problem with Quick Man's straight dash. It's basically a high speed tackle, which he was basically doing in MM2. Plus you can cancel it, anyway. What I DO have a problem with is his mainfire. Takes too long to stop and star seeking someone out. It's just a way less useful version of vanilla classes Quickman's alt at this point. Doc Robot's version is better!

Napalm Man's mainfire should bounce at least once before exploding.

Does Mercury's Grab Buster do anything except damage (and that nice little easter egg of the victim losing an E-Can. Nice touch, by the way!)? Does it have some effect on copyweps I haven't seen yet?

Bubble Man's Bubble Lead might need a bigger hitbox. I saw the bubble touch several opponents and do nothing. Also it's useless underwater since it starts at his head, and the low gravity makes it sail above the opponent if they're too close. Making Bubble Man's signature move virtually useless underwater seems like the definition of counterintuitive.

Gyro Man needs a RoF buff. He can't hold his own in an up-close firefight, even enough to make a break for it. Also, several times I flat out couldn't throw a gyro, even after the last gyro had long since gone.

125

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 27, 2014, 06:21:07 AM »

Played with some human opponents. A couple things...

- Air Man needs to have a less annoying mainfire sound. Oh my god. Please get rid of the wind blowing sound (not the air shooter sound, the other one). it's noisy and horrible in a firefight.

- Found a bug: Saturn can't absorb Skull Man's buster shots, or Venus' homing bubbles.

- Saturn's release attack needs to be buffed in some way. After all the work you have to do to get it, all it does is Flash Man's attack with a weak spray of bullets from his feet (shouldn't they fire from the center of his body instead of his feet)?

- After seeing every facet to Yamato Man, I gotta say excellent touch. A simple attack with a handful of different ways to damage opponents? Clever!

- Mars' mines should explode on contact. They're near useless as is.

126

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 26, 2014, 08:51:10 PM »

Random suggestion I just thought of; shouldn't Needle Man's mainfire stop his fall when he's in the air? Also, Gemini Man's clone should also mirror your jumps as well as your other movements to make it both more canon, and more useful.

If we were to buff the ammo, he will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.

Yes, but I think you might be overdoing it here. Again, in a real firefight he tends to run completely out of ammo, and since his Screw Crusher stops the charge on his cannonball ammo when used, he can't make up for it by synergizing his two attacks. The only way he's really effective here is to enter a fracas with both meters charged, cannonball his way in, and pick off survivors with Screw Crushers. In a fair fight, his high ammo consumption combined with low damage for a single projectile with moderate speed (a 5HKO) gives him a big disadvantage. I like that you gave it finite ammo, and slowed the projectile speed down from the way overpowered vanilla classes Punk, but he still needs a tweak to make him perfect. As it stands, he may not be spammy, but he's not much of an offensive threat without the cannonball either.

If we were to buff the ammo, [Punk] will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.

High fire rate? He fires almost as slow as Cloud Man, and his ammo bars take far too long to charge!

And herein lies the main issue I see with this mod; you're so afraid of "spammy" classes that half of the mod gets stuck having to wait for their ammo bars to recharge for fifteen years in order to do anything in a game all about fast-paced action. Flash Man being the prime example (why does his buster DRAIN AMMO)

...I should go through the mod and do a more thorough review of each class. Might give me a better idea of what to suggest for changes.

Yeah, if there's any major issue at this point I can find, this would be it. Several classes feel too handicapped to force them not to spam.

127

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 26, 2014, 12:29:13 PM »

Sorry for the doublepost, but I tried out a handful of classes against a bunch of Mega Man bots to see how they fared in basic combat. These are just initial impressions that may change after fighting people:

Punk - I like the attempts to balance him, and the bounce cannonball adds some extra strategy to using it since you can move during the bounces. I love that, adds variety! One big issue, though, is his ammo consumption on his mainfire. It takes most of his ammo just to kill one opponent. He's actually kind of underpowered because of this. All he needs is an ammo buff (ammo consumption should be cut in half), and he should be perfect.

Pharaoh Man - I like the versatility here! I found myself enterring a fray with a Pharaoh Wave, and finishing people off with Pharaoh Shots. Pretty sure that's the idea, so he seems to be a success. Nice damage balance, too. I never felt like I was wielding a nuke. Everything synergized just right. Kudos!

Spark Man - had to see if he was improvement over vanilla classes' Spark Man, and I gotta say he definitely is! Spark Shock doesn't stun you for too long, and the giant spark is great for crowd control. Plus, this setup makes him a force to be reckoned with on his own map! Seems excellent so far!

Magnet Man - I'd have to fight people with him to make any kind of final verdict, but so far I'm in love. Pulling people toward you is so satisfying, and finishing them off with Magnet Missiles is great! My one qualm is you can't hit a group of people with Magnet Pull, but you can pull them all in. Less satisfying than it could be, and it can put you in danger. How much damage does that pull do, anyway? Sometimes it felt really strong, other times pretty weak.

Drill Man - Solid overall. Drill Bombs didn't feel as awkward as they do in vanilla classes, which makes him easier to pick up and play.

Uranus - Oh my dear sweet merciful god he is fun to play as! Who do I have to plant a big sloppy kiss on to thank them for this guy? Oh god...! I could play as this guy for hours!

Jupiter - My favorite Stardroid is sadly underpowered here. His mainfire does piss-poor damage, and his alt feels like it should be powerful, but I'll be damned if I could get kills with the thing. Barely even managed to soften anyone up. Even when I fired it into a crowd it did little. Using him was the only match where I lost to the Mega-Bots.

Saturn - Also a blast to play, but his release attack feels like it barely does anything. What's the properties of this move? I only killed one bot by accident with it, and I don't think I ever even hit with it again. The versatility of his mainfire, though, is fun as hell.

Neptune - I don't know where I stand on this guy. He seemed strong enough, but just barely. Gonna have to use him against human opponents for a final verdict. His alt never seemed to hit, though.

So far, this mod looks great! Obviously it's very much a "v1a", but I'm totally excited to see where this goes in the future, and damn if this mod doesn't feel polished as hell!

128

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v1ah

« on: January 26, 2014, 05:30:59 AM »

Apologies if this post seems a bit wonky, I'm multitasking here...

I'm stoked to see a successor to KY Classes, and the addition of the Stardroids was a welcome surprise! I'll have to test this out myself to get a feel for the classes and any changes I can suggest if need be. While I gotta say the initial discussion for this mod was rocky as hell, I hope we can get past all that, some of the developers can be a little more open (not to say you gotta go full YD Classes and start making stuff up, but don't let a perfectly good character end up underpowered, overpowered, or stuck with useless abilities out of an over-adherence to canon. You said you wanted classes to stand on their own, right?).

I'll host a Deathmatch server for this mod so folks can test and explore these classes in a multiplayer environment.

We aren't going for class roles like YD classes; we are trying to allow all the robot masters to have a fair fight in most every situation.

Then they aren't classes, they're slight variations of megaman.

No, I think he's coming at this from a fighting game mentality; that each character should have their own unique abilities, but still be able to stand on their own, as opposed to some of them needing a team/role to play. A character can specialize in one thing or another and still be able to hold their own.

I fully support this way of thinking. It lets players choose their favorite Robot Master in any game mode and be able to do fine, as opposed to some classes being so support-reliant, or support-centric, that on their own they're near-useless.

EDIT:
Played a bit of it, mainly just ran around by myself seeing what each class does. Just at a glance I'm incredibly impressed at the level of detail here. Virtually everything has the right animations and sprites. The classes really do feel like I'm playing as the actual characters themselves, and I like the touches on a lot of the animations (Pharaoh Man's mainfire's HUD having what feels like a whole animation sequence makes the attack just satisfying to throw out). Some moves feel like they'd be impractical in a fight, but I'll have to actually use them against people before I can confirm that. Spark man's HUD definitely takes up too much space, and Tomahawk Man's HUD could be scooted over a bit so it's not in so much of the way.

Also Sunstar appears to be missing.

Quick question; are the extra touches from KY Classes still present? Bot Rush? Terminator mode where picking up the Dark Energy turns you into Wily?

129

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7ah)

« on: January 13, 2014, 09:43:09 AM »

I'd like to agree with the notion that Aqua Man needs a buff, now. His Water Cannon seems have the opposite problem it had before; now it's too weak and unreliable. You pretty much have to shoot it in a crowded, tiny area to get any serious use out of it. I love the new style of it (being more canon and all), now it just needs a little bit more improving and its golden. Also the Water Balloon could use a buff. How much damage does it do, exactly? I've rarely ever scored an actual kill with it.

Also, would he be too OP if he didn't lose ALL his water from using Water Cannon? It was certainly justified when he was unleashing aquatic death at the push of a button, but now he's rendered almost helpless by unleashing the attack, and the attack isn't worth anywhere near the risk anymore.

This is just a personal thing, but I do believe all major modes of play should be considered when thinking about Class performance and how to improve them. Y'know, let the players decide how they want to play Classes, instead of just focusing on the modes you personally prefer. Of course, it's your mod and you can do whatever you want, but it's just a thought.

And to cap things off, I wanna say I really do appreciate all the work you guys are putting into this. I probably wouldn't still be playing 8BDM if it weren't for this mod.

130

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7ah)

« on: January 12, 2014, 09:40:47 AM »

What if...

Mainfire: Roots self, and allows you to charge for 0 to 3 seconds. Releasing will cause you to plow forward for slightly longer than you charged for, however, you can only plow forward in a straight line, much like how Punk's alt works. However, Chargeman can cancel mid-charge. Striking an enemy will deal significant damage and smack them out of the way.

Altfire: Shoots three coals in front of Chargeman in a line, much like Heatman's mainfire (except, of course, Chargeman's coals fall from the sky)

I really like this idea. Feels more canon, and like it would require more skill and planning and less Leeroy Jenkins shenanigans. Would also feel like you're actually playing as a big-ass train. Plowing into a crowd of people and sending everyone flying around sounds like nothing but fun.

As for Frost Man, here's a few ideas off the top of my head to improve him:
- Let him charge his melee attack. Uncharged is normal punch. Charged is his dashing ice punch.
- Buff Ice Wave pretty much the way SmashBro suggested.
- Add an Ice Block item. Using it drops an ice block in front of you, which can be punched at enemies Junk Man-style, or climbed on by Frost man and/or his teammates. If the Ice Block hits an enemy (if they run into a stationary one, or if one is punched at them), it does a single hit of damage and shatters (so Frost man isn't shoehorning his way into Junk Man's turf).

131

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7ah)

« on: January 11, 2014, 08:06:12 PM »

It would certainly make him more interesting to play as, if nothing else.

132

Projects & Creative / Re: Wait, why would I be defending Ring Man? o_O

« on: January 10, 2014, 07:58:50 AM »

Now I question: if Ringman is OP because it can shred a normal armor class apart with proper aim, why isn't Cutman OP too?

Because Cutman can't kill you in a matter of second(s) by walking straight at you and holding M1. By switching to the copywep version of Ring Man's boomerang he gains a rapid fire shredding boomerang attack. Try it; just go W+M1 with him on Copywep mode. He gets one boomerang back the second the throws the other one. Cutman has to actually aim and hit you at the right angle to kill you the second he lines you up with his line of fire. Ring Man basically kills you by looking at you funny.

Frankly, the Copywep version should just throw one ring.

133

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7ah)

« on: January 09, 2014, 10:04:56 AM »

Astro Man is just plain irritating to play as or against. He's hard to kill while he's floating around invisible, and his Copy Vision barely does any damage in return. If he dares to attempt an Astro Crush, he often dies while he's frozen in place, and the Astro Crush itself isn't even that impressive.

Agreed, which is sad because I like Astro Man, but he is just not rewarding to use in the least, and in battle he's a nuisance.

Also I love that new Water Cannon for Aqua Man. Feels more like the actual attack from the game this time around!

134

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7ah)

« on: January 08, 2014, 08:14:04 PM »

He's got his armor and his fast charge for that. He's got a lot more than he needs- fast speed, strong armor, melee attack, instant firing, instant kill aoe, all on a rather unrestrictive ammo bar. Right behind Frostman and Grenademan, Chargeman is easily the most egregious class in the pack and needs to be toned down desperately.

You forgot Ring Man. Two rapid fire rings that shred most classes and pretty much kill weak armored classes the instant he nails them.

135

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7a)

« on: January 07, 2014, 04:53:59 AM »

I'm with ice. All Cloud Man really needs is about double the ammo and he's good.

Another thing I noticed; Search man actually needs a little help in some areas. He's pretty much rendered useless if Sword Man is in play. He can't outrun Sword Man, and one Flame Sword kills him. He's got similar issues with Turbo Man, but not as egregious as Sword Man.