Messages

121

Mega Man Discussion / Re: The Robot Master Sorter

« on: April 25, 2016, 07:51:36 AM »

This took a long ass while, and many of these are tied. Top 10, not gonna split ties:

(click to show/hide)

1- Astro Man & Burner Man
3- Heat Man
4- Magnet Man
5- Galaxy Man
6- Flame Man
7- Ring Man
8- Jewel Man & Chill Man
10- Guts Man

122

Graphic Alterations/Submissions / Re: Weapon color limitation violations

« on: April 20, 2016, 05:48:45 AM »

That new Duo Fist/Duo color scheme is way better, IMO.

That Sakugarne color scheme, while accurate to the NES rule, looks kinda offputting. I'd rather have Sakugarne be the exception.

I feel like only the projectiles should use the same color scheme as the player, but not the weapon icons. Weapons icons only showed up in pause screens, where they didn't even have weapon colors to begin with. Though I personally don't see any problem in doing this.

Arrow Buster should use Mega Man's skin color instead of just blue and cyan and white, it should mimic the usage of skin color from the regular charge buster shot.

123

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM Screenshots

« on: April 19, 2016, 02:08:52 AM »

What about a way to force a kind of model depending on software or GL? Software uses voxel models, GL uses N64-styled models.

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM Screenshots

« on: April 18, 2016, 11:44:40 PM »

Yeah, every object or at least item or moving platform that you can climb on or any object that's part of a map's platforming section should have a 3D model counterpart. Those yoku blocks especially looked delicious, the one in the back with the black outlines as it shines looks exactly the way I'd like to see them all, from that angle it looks perfect.

I'd say take Lego's advice and try some voxel modeling instead, I know you are aiming for an N64 style of low poly models, but I think voxel models of these pixel sprites might be worth looking at.

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM Screenshots

« on: April 18, 2016, 01:49:25 AM »

These 3D models are amazing (especially the yoku blocks, they are exactly what I've dreamed of, and would be an amazing feature in core), but I do have one complaint, a pet peeve of sorts: they lack the sprite's black outlines. Now, I understand why they're not there, but I just feel that a cel-shaded style of rendering or something would make the 3D models more accurate to the original sprites.

126

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Atomic Fire)

« on: April 16, 2016, 08:10:21 PM »

Lowering the full charge Atomic Fire shot from 100 to 35 just means you can survive it some times, which kinda increase inconsistency and uncertainty over the effectiveness of the shot, which just makes the weapon less attractive instead of balancing it.

You can argue the same about my suggestion of "losing charge when hit" with upping inconsistency with all other charge weapons, but there has always been inconsistency between charge weapons between every game, with some losing charge when hit and some not losing charge when hit. And besides, it's very easy to tell that losing your charge when hit is the penalty for having access to a OHKO weapon.

127

MM8BDM Discussion / Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch

« on: April 15, 2016, 07:30:25 PM »

I think what needs to be analyzed is how the weapon is broken in various modes.

In LMS/TLMS, you only have two shots of Atomic Fire's full charge shot. No pickups to regain ammo (unless I'm greatly mistaken and used to Classes LMS, which has no ammo pickups), thusly greatly limiting the weapon in comparison to DM: good aim is far more fundamental in this mode, if you miss a shot, might as well throw the weapon away. With the same drawbacks from DM in mind, anything but a OHKO shot is not rewarding enough for full charge, and this is further emphasized given the lack of ammo regeneration: perhaps only the 50 damage mid charge shot is more versatile for this mode, if you didn't have only 6 shots of it in comparison to Pharaoh Shot full charge shot's or Noise Crush full charge shot's crapload of them. Getting Atomic Fire in LMS/TLMS is, despite the OHKO combo possibilities, very unlucky as I've commented earlier on how less useful it is in comparison to the other charge weapons: I'd rather get these instead of Atomic Fire. If we only take into account LMS/TLMS, the changes you suggested would be a perfect fit, maybe add a slight ammo buff for it.

The possibilities of brokenness in other modes shouldn't be brought upon the table as reasons to nerf/buff this weapon, especially LMS/TLMS, where everybody gets it when you do, and not just you. Comboing an entire chuck of a team with a single Atomic Fire shot, or OHKOing "without prior notice" (this is bs, you can hear the charge sound very clearly, pay attention to your surroundings) in LMS/TLMS are, IMO, valid outcomes when you take into account how, in LMS/TLMS, you have no way to recover ammo or how easily spottable the player wielding the weapon becomes. Now in DM, you can recover its ammo, which makes the weapon more deadly.











Also, watzup's idea of being taken back a level of charge when hit is a very good idea, IMO. While in full charge, if you get hit at all, you're brought back to mid charge. 50 damage is still a decent firing output for a charge weapon, and not all the pressure of Atomic Fire is lost since, you know, 50 damage is a lot.

128

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Atomic Fire)

« on: April 13, 2016, 09:55:16 PM »

I agree with the argument on how accessible the OHKO charge weapon is on most maps, even despite its large destructive power. The thing is that, if I wanted a good charge weapon, I'd pick every other charge weapon instead of Atomic Fire simply because charging times are faster/almost instant, while still keeping a 2HKO projectile: Atomic Fire's mid charge shot (50 damage) takes a longer time to charge up in comparison to other charge weapons' full charge shots, and uses way more ammo than these. Not to mention the fact that it takes so long to build up the OHKO shot while also exposing your position to players that pay attention to their surroundings. Atomic Fire is not even the 2nd best charge weapon because of the things I mentioned, it's only picked because of the OHKO shot, which takes time to build up, and imposes drawbacks onto those who use it outside of its OHKO shot ability: a more ammo-balanced charge weapon or a more instant charge weapon is just so much versatile and better in the long run, which is why I don't think Atomic Fire being too accessible is a huge deal, but just a side fact to bring up.

The entire essence of Atomic Fire is that it's the OHKO weapon: for the time it takes to build up, anything but a OHKO shot would be on the unfair side, even a really high 2HKO dealing 90 damage which just feels like a huge cock tease. I don't see a huge problem with Atomic Fire dealing YOU DIE damage, especially when taking into account its tradeoffs as a charge weapon. If people are willing to just only use Atomic Fire, they are also already throwing away more efficient ways of racking up points in deathmatch.



If there's one thing everybody should understand about vanilla DM balance, is that you want to keep its weapons as easily understandable as possible: the more side effects and gimmicks you add into it, the more it deviates from this philosophy of keeping things simple. Durability, stamina, damage scaling, special properties of certain sections of the projectiles, all of these are valid ways to change or nerf Atomic Fire...the thing is, conveying the meaning of these concepts, which are IMO already complex, through direct play adds one more layer of depth to what should be basic to understand, and as designers, we shouldn't expect users to "understand our logic" or "assume users are idiots so make it basic", but instead to blend the practicality of our designs to the uses these players give to them.............ionno, it's kinda hard for me to explain, but vanilla tries to keep it simple most of the time, so these things I don't really wanna see tackled into core weapons. Stuff like charge fizzling out or being cancelled by damage, ammo nerfs, maybe firing delays, projectile speed or damage value decrease/increase, these are tied to the direct practicality of the weapon, without adding a layer of information that requires more in-depth understanding of the mechanics of the game.

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Atomic Fire)

« on: April 13, 2016, 06:41:41 AM »

I actually looked at the hitboxes too, and was surprised that the shots are far smaller than what the projectile graphics are, pretty much up to par with the Mega Buster's pellets. Now, I didn't suggest a bigger hitbox because of two reasons:

1.- A bigger hitbox means its easier to land.
2.- A bigger hitbox means its harder to fire next to walls/in small corridors.

The second reason far outweighting the first one, as way too big projectiles tend to get in the way of odd and uneven map geometry far too often and get eaten, which you don't want when trying to use Atomic Fire: it doesn't lend itself too well in practice for this case.

130

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Atomic Fire)

« on: April 13, 2016, 04:39:44 AM »

My ideas and recollections on Atomic Fire and potential changes:

-Makes a lot of noise when charging, with no penalty to holding the charge...other than making yourself very easy to spot and literally a walking target of higher priority, which I'd assume was the intended penalty, but this has proven to be a non-issue in offensive play (which is to say the only kind of play in 8BDM DM IMO). Many things have been suggested towards penalizing the hold charge already over the years, none of which I can recall specifically. Maybe take a hint from the original Atomic Fire from MM2, and lose the charge if you're damaged while charging: that way, there's a bigger penalty in holding the charge and letting your position be known to nearby enemies.

-Huge destructive power on that full charge ripper shot. It travels so far without its power decaying over time, too. Maybe put a range limit to the full charge shot a-la Mega Man X5's Gaea Armor full charge shot? Trade off tremendous power with a medium range projectile.

-50 damage on that medium charge shot, and 12 damage on the small one. They're actually both ok, small one being a stronger Mega Buster, and mid charge being essentially following the 2HKO standard for all charge weapons except Homing Sniper and the MM8 busters, despite being super restrictive with only having 5 mid charge shots.

-The weapon itself, as it is, captures the essence of the original weapon pretty straightforward, and doesn't merit a big revamp, else this essence might be lost: the only problems arise with the lack of a real, perceivable tradeoff to forever holding it.

I wanna bring Scorch Wheel into discussion: you only get 4 shots of it, but the range that wheel projectile can cover is beyond ridiculous, it's bigger than it lends itself to be, which makes it harder to dodge unless you perceive it as an actual huge barrage of constant spawning explosions.

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General Gaming Discussion / Re: Video Game songs you love

« on: April 12, 2016, 02:15:55 AM »

One of my favorite live tracks from the Modern era Sonic franchise:

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MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 Public Thread - MM9 Expansion

« on: April 11, 2016, 08:23:26 PM »

Most of the MM8 covers OM did need to be looked at, IMO. I'm sure he can make them sound way better now.

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W.I.P Forum / Re: The Idea(s) Topic

« on: April 11, 2016, 08:27:24 AM »

A Doom Center-like map, but for MM8BDM.

Really, that's it.

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Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8b)

« on: April 11, 2016, 05:26:37 AM »

Also, can confirm that what's left of what's still active of the devteam agrees with adding a custom variable to turn Weapons Archive morph on CTF on and off. So when its time, we'll get around to doing that + million more to-do lists.

135

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 Public Thread - MM9 Expansion

« on: April 11, 2016, 04:47:55 AM »

Timeman's theme and Oilman's theme are covers by OM. The MMPU boss theme is a cover done by whoever was in charge of music for the FC Team, at the time of 8FC's development. I did try making a MM1-themed edit of OM's MMPU covers, but the original compositions aren't something that would lend itself well 1:1 to MM1's sound in some specific parts, which honestly need some more in-depth look at them and perhaps a finer ear for MM1 pitches and vibratos.