Messages

91

DECORATE and ACS Modifications / Re: Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - Reports of my death, yadaya

« on: July 12, 2013, 08:25:26 PM »

+1 for M. Bison.

Oh by the way, random bug report...A few days ago, I played a match in which I was one of only three players, and the boss picker seemed to screw up in a very odd way...The actual boss that got selected was Cave, leaving Knuxman and me as survivors, but apparently, the game thought a dual boss had been picked, because I immediately got the message that I was the last survivor. The music changed (for me at least), and I had a Spread rune right from the start. (I forgot to check to see if I had the Exit Unit.) Knuxman apparently didn't notice anything unusual until I showed him that I had Spread, and when I died first to see what would happen, he was treated as the last survivor in the usual manner.

(Incidentally, in the next match, Seeman and Seeldier were chosen as the bosses.)

92

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v6g)

« on: July 10, 2013, 07:52:27 AM »

I know the heavy and hard armor types now, but does Junkman still get 0.4 armor from his shield?

On an unrelated note, what will Frostman and Duo's armor be?

I still don't know those new armor values. :? Is anyone feeling a little more forthcoming about them now? I'm still curious...

93

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM Funnies

« on: July 08, 2013, 09:47:13 AM »

So, some time earlier, while I was playing Classes Team LMS, I managed to telefrag someone after he killed me.

The stage was MM3 Skull Castle Interior; I was using Elec Man, and I was on my last life. I was heading for the teleporter, but just as I set foot on it, Ricky456 fragged me right as I was about to teleport. He promptly went through the teleporter himself--and was immediately telefragged by me while I was still in my death animation. Naturally, we were both rather confused... :?

94

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v6g)

« on: July 04, 2013, 03:18:22 AM »

Doc Robot's new HUD is a very nice touch. And Needle Man's changes are quite interesting (though it feels a bit strange to think of him as a "heavy" class).

A couple quick questions: What did you nerf the Hard and Heavy Armors to? And did Doc Robot always have Light Armor as his default, or is it just the color of his life bar that's changed?

95

DECORATE and ACS Modifications / Re: Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - i did work

« on: June 30, 2013, 11:45:54 PM »

I know that wad isn't meant for this version of SH...I'm just asking about it because it seems like some players have the idea that newer versions of SH are somehow totally incompatible with Classes and could never be fixed to be compatible. If I'm understanding this correctly, they could still be reconciled like the old version was if someone wanted to do so.

As for the survivors having an advantage with Classes...well, it might have been true if the Hales were as they appear in the current version, but in the old version, a good number of them are OP even against Classes. (And there's also PO Roll, who is nigh-unbeatable due to her healing.) It's mainly stalling and a select few maps that cause problems. And yet, despite those issues, the mode still seems fairly popular. (I enjoy it myself from time to time.) I just can't help thinking that if the mode is still fun even in the form we have now, a properly balanced version could be a great thing indeed.

Funny, a properly balanced version of anything with 50+ classes is mathematically impossible without rendering the distinctions between them meaningless. Also, from my armchair psychology the reason people like Classes Saxton is because it's unbalanced in their favor.

Saxton Hale itself is, by definition, an unbalanced mode. It's impossible to perfectly balance one Hale against a team of survivors, especially when you factor in hundreds of maps and 60+ weapons, but it's still quite fun. It's the same with Classes (regardless of whether the mode is DM, LMS, CTF, or SH); you can't achieve perfect balance, but you can get close enough for the mode to be fun overall. As for distinctions between classes, the only distinction that's really causing problems in SH is extreme mobility (or extreme lack of it), which is only one distinguishing feature of classes. There are plenty of classes with similar or identical mobility that still have unique play styles due to their attacks, and smaller variations in mobility are not game-breaking.

Regarding players looking for easy wins, all I can offer are my personal experiences with the mode. I like Classes simply because they add uniqueness and variety. Many players I see on these servers also rotate through a variety of classes and don't touch infamous stallers like Quick Man, so I would guess that they're not just out for the wins either. The old version of SH is more than capable of shifting the balance against the survivors, depending on the Hale, so it's not always plain sailing. And even if it does just come down to the Hale chasing a lone speedy or flying survivor around, the Hale still wins sometimes. So I really don't believe that the only possible appeal in the mode is the chance at easy wins against the Hale.

Please don't take this the wrong way...I'm not expecting you guys to suddenly change your minds and start working on Class SH. I just felt the need to explain why I think Class SH isn't as hopeless as some people make it out to be. I'll leave you to your normal discussion now...

96

DECORATE and ACS Modifications / Re: Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - i did work

« on: June 30, 2013, 09:04:54 AM »

I know that wad isn't meant for this version of SH...I'm just asking about it because it seems like some players have the idea that newer versions of SH are somehow totally incompatible with Classes and could never be fixed to be compatible. If I'm understanding this correctly, they could still be reconciled like the old version was if someone wanted to do so.

As for the survivors having an advantage with Classes...well, it might have been true if the Hales were as they appear in the current version, but in the old version, a good number of them are OP even against Classes. (And there's also PO Roll, who is nigh-unbeatable due to her healing.) It's mainly stalling and a select few maps that cause problems. And yet, despite those issues, the mode still seems fairly popular. (I enjoy it myself from time to time.) I just can't help thinking that if the mode is still fun even in the form we have now, a properly balanced version could be a great thing indeed.

97

DECORATE and ACS Modifications / Re: Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - i did work

« on: June 30, 2013, 01:43:52 AM »

The mod is not meant to be played with Classes in the first place. If it was, those weapons that could team kill others would have already been taken care of in both the resistances for the hales and the immunities for the players (how regular weapons do not harm anyone except the hale). You have to expect stuff like this when you combine two roughly incompatible mods together. Just remember how Rage Roboenza and Saxton Hale turned out...

Well, aren't issues like those the reason that the classes-v6fsaxtonhalehotfix-betaf.pk3 wad exists (for combining Classes with the old version of SH)? I understand that the two mods weren't balanced with their combination in mind, but it seems that they're at least compatible on some level. Who came up with that Class SH fix in the first place?

98

DECORATE and ACS Modifications / Re: Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - i did work

« on: June 29, 2013, 10:38:14 PM »

^I actually tried loading the latest SH version (Tails's) with the Classes wad just to see if it would work, and while it was functional, it suffered from those same two issues that you mentioned. It seems like more weapons have the friendly fire problem with Tails's version. (Even Plant Man's Plant Buster can damage allies.)

99

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v6F)

« on: June 28, 2013, 06:48:14 AM »

Thank you, that helps quite a bit. I'm guessing the armor tiers can be distinguished by the color of the life bar? I've noticed that classes with heavier armor seem to have life bars of varying shades of green (though I haven't paid attention to the lighter armor colors).

100

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v6F)

« on: June 28, 2013, 06:24:39 AM »

you could always open the file with SLADE

I...have no idea what that is. :? Could you perhaps elaborate a bit?

101

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v6F)

« on: June 28, 2013, 05:56:14 AM »

Sorry if this is a noob question, but is there any place that I can find the exact stats of the different classes? (You know, jump height of x units, movement speed of y units, armor that blocks z percent of incoming damage, etc.) I've become rather curious about exactly where each class stands, and reading back a bit in this thread, I noticed people talking about things like how Hard Man's armor blocks exactly 10% more damage than some other armored classes, which makes me think that the info must be available somewhere. I just don't know where to look for it, and the wiki page isn't much help.