Messages

136

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ehh

« on: July 07, 2016, 04:24:42 AM »

I'd like to start off this post by actually quoting Jax here, not sure if you saw this as you didn't acknowledge these bugs. This post is also where those two lists came from, which I believe were made before v3e so I apologize for that.

Bug: performing Astro Crush once allows Astro Man to perform Astro Crush at any ammo level.
Bug: was able to move a MM1FIR pillar somehow. Still trying to determine cause...

Suggestion: Prevent "ammo lock"- holding main or altfire to do nothing and stop ammo gain.
(Example: Holding alt with FireMan in CBM will have him still gain ammo and do his overdrive asap. Holding alt with FireMan in Justi will stop his ammo gain, you would never want this.)
CBM has had this for a while. All ammo-locks do is enforce execution skill in an online fps prone to lag and desync.

Some class property lists I made (don't get too caught up in semantics and if everything is right):

(click to show/hide)

Classes that stop when performing an action:

YD
Guts
Magnet
Hard
Bright
Toad
Stone
Napalm
Blizzard
Freeze
Cloud
Spring
Turbo
Astro
Ground
Magma
Burner
Hyper Storm H
Enker
Punk
Quint

Justi
Elec
Guts
Time
Enker
Heat
Flash
Quint
DocRobot
Hard
Top
Magnet
Needle
Buster Rod G
Punk
Skull
Dive
Drill
Toad
Crystal
Stone
Mercury
Uranus
Centaur
Wind
Cloud
Turbo
Duo
Clown
Frost
Sword
Ground
Burner

Classes that slow when performing an action (and not in Stop):

YD
Needle
Dynamo

Justi
Bomb
Wood
Bright
Wave
star
Venus
Jupiter
Saturn
Flame
Blizzard
Spring
Grenade
Pirate
Dynamo
King

(click to show/hide)

Classes possessing an overdrive
Requiring and using a full bar for a single action

YD
Wily
Fire
Time
Quick
Flash
Hard
Bright
Skull
Gravity
Blizzard
Flame
Knight
Freeze
Cold
Pirate
Punk

justi
Cut
Elec
Ice
Fire
Bomb
Oil
Time
Heat
Flash
Quick
Hard
Hyper Storm H
Mega Water S
Buster Rod G
Punk
Skull
Bright
Charge
Darkman3
Mercury
Terra
Uranus
Neptune
Centaur
Blizzard
Freeze
Burst
Junk
Slash
Clown
Grenade
Sword
Astro
Tengu
Ground
Pirate
Burner
Cold
King

(click to show/hide)

Justi classes that avoid "ammo lock"
Classes without timed ammo regen
Mega
Proto
Bass
Rock
Roll
Sniper Joe
Toad
Darkman1
Darkman2
Darkman4
Knight
Frost
Dynamo
Magic

Classes with timed ammo regen
Time
Bubble
Gemini
Mega Water S
Bright
Darkman3
Jupiter
Uranus
Yamato
Cloud
Duo

Anyway, with that over, I'd also like to say that my last post was made from the complaints of a ~50 person Discord server, meaning many different opinions of what should be changed and what shouldn't be changed. In fact, I invite you to join it so that you can hear everyone's opinion and reply instantly for quicker discussion Found right here. I swear this isn't meant to be just a shameless plug. With that being said though, I will post my own opinions here on what classes should be changed in regard to slowing and stopping attacks.

Heat Man:

(click to show/hide)

I'd change Heat Man's Heat Tackle charge to a simple slow, for how long it takes to charge it, he's REALLY a sitting target. Even with that high armor, it leaves him a complete victim to ripping attacks like Frost Man's deadly punch.

Flash Man:

(click to show/hide)

Pretty simple one, whenever Flash Man is preparing for a time skip (I have no idea what it's actually called so I'll just be calling it this) it halts him completely, which is sort of counter-productive for teleporting elsewhere, it also makes it quite obvious that you will be teleporting if you're not fast enough. I'd say either slow him or just keep full speed.

Needle Man:

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This might just be missing the point of his grapple, but if his grapple is meant to make Needle faster in general as a class, having it stop him beforehand isn't really helping. Possibly just slowing Needle so he's able to get momentum into his grapple so that it's more of a Thunder Claw swing would be better for this.

Snake Man: (Not a stop/slow suggestion but just a bug I found, woops)

(click to show/hide)

So this is actually not a suggestion but rather a simple bug, using his jump-variation alt-fire directly into a corner has some weird results.

Napalm Man:

(click to show/hide)

I wouldn't really call this one a forced stop/slow but rather a control-lock. Why have Napalm Man be forced to go straight forward with his rocket jump? I think it possibly might be more interesting if he went in the direction he was holding, or straight up if nothing.

Venus:

(click to show/hide)

I honestly just don't see why Venus's alt-fire stops him, it's more so just an unnecessary thing that hinders him.

Cloud Man:

(click to show/hide)

Another simple one, have Cloud Man get slowed while firing, not entirely stopped. Needing to stop every time you fire just feels super awkward.

Duo:

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Not exactly a stop/slow suggestion but a suggestion in general, if Duo is aiming low near his feet, make it do his shock-wave attack in place. It's just a convenience thing, rather than just flying around locked in place like an idiot.

Grenade Man:

(click to show/hide)

I see Grenade Man's Crazy Destroyer as a desperation attack to get people off of him in a pinch... so why does it stop him in place so he's just an easier target? Slow-down for this one.

Burner Man:

(click to show/hide)

I already mentioned Burner Man's Bear Traps stopping him in my last post, but I do want to say I think it shouldn't hinder his movement at all. Keeping Burner Man locked in that same place really kills its effectiveness as a "get off me" move whenever he'll just fall down to the same spot where everyone is waiting for him.

137

Projects & Creative / i spent way too long on this

« on: July 06, 2016, 08:52:16 PM »

So recently the MM8BDM Discord shameless plug has been discussing their issues and complaints with JC, and I figured I might as well try to sum all them up here. This is going to probably be quite a hefty post so I'm just going to split it up into different spoiler boxes in order of most to least important.

Flow:

(click to show/hide)

This here is the biggest issue that most people have with Justified Classes, complaints of clunky game-play and the pace being too slow. To fully understand this issue, I've broken it down a bit. I think this clunky game-play is caused by three main things, attacks that stop, attacks that slow, and a poor ammo system. I'll elaborate on this ammo system and why it doesn't work in Ammo Management, so for now let's focus on the other two. A lot of classes in Justified Classes suffer from the issue of being stopped or slowed while attacking. Star Man's got it, Cloud Man is mostly a sitting target from it, and even the pyromaniac Burner Man isn't even safe from the issue. To understand the sheer number of classes that suffer from this issue in comparison to YD Classes, I'm just going to copy Jax's list from the previous post.      

Stops
YD Classes:
Guts
Magnet
Hard
Bright
Toad
Stone
Napalm
Blizzard
Freeze
Cloud
Spring
Turbo
Astro
Ground
Magma
Burner
Hyper Storm H
Enker
Punk
Quint

Justified:
Elec
Guts
Time
Enker
Heat
Flash
Quint
DocRobot
Hard
Top
Magnet
Needle
Buster Rod G
Punk
Skull
Dive
Drill
Toad
Crystal
Stone
Mercury
Uranus
Centaur
Wind
Cloud
Turbo
Duo
Clown
Frost
Sword
Ground
Burner

Slows (No Stops)
YD Classes:
Needle
Dynamo

Justified:
Bomb
Wood
Bright
Wave
Star
Venus
Jupiter
Saturn
Flame
Blizzard
Spring
Grenade
Pirate
Dynamo
King

So uh, obviously that's an issue. To elaborate, no player wants to be slowed down especially in the heat of combat. Being halted to a stop just makes you feel like a sitting duck getting pelted at while you're doing your attack. It becomes less of a game in those short moments and becomes more of an animation that you're just watching. Although that may seem like a bit of an exaggeration, constantly being stopped just to occasionally hold down a button then release it only to be frozen in place once again is not engaging game-play. That's what most classes such as Duo boil down to. Not only does this make playing certain characters feel non-engaging to play, but it makes actual combat feel awkward whenever both players are being constantly stopped. It creates a stop, go, stop, go type of flow, meaning at times both players are just sitting there staring at each other while doing nothing. Certain things stopping the player like King changing form is entirely understandable but some attacks are just made way more awkward than they should be such as Burner Man's Bear Traps.  To wrap up Flow here, I'd suggest removing some of the unnecessary stops and slows, keep stuff like Guts Man picking up a Guts Rock but definitely remove the stops of Burner Man's Bear Traps.

Ammo Management:

(click to show/hide)

Looks like Jax beat me to the punch on this one but I'd still like to expand on this point. Feel free to consider this a continuation of Flow as all of this does contribute to why Justified Classes can feel clunky at times. I'd like to start this segment with just another comparison list, once again copied from Jax's previous post. These are all of the classes that have attacks that require a full ammo bar.

YD Classes:
Wily
Fire
Time
Quick
Flash
Hard
Bright
Skull
Gravity
Blizzard
Flame
Knight
Freeze
Cold
Pirate
Punk

Justified:
Cut
Elec
Ice
Fire
Bomb
Oil
Time
Heat
Flash
Quick
Hard
Hyper Storm H
Mega Water S
Buster Rod G
Punk
Skull
Bright
Charge
Darkman3
Mercury
Terra
Uranus
Neptune
Centaur
Blizzard
Freeze
Burst
Junk
Slash
Clown
Grenade
Sword
Astro
Tengu
Ground
Pirate
Burner
Cold
King

Now, you may be thinking, why exactly is this relevant or an issue? It's not an issue on its own, but rather it stands out more because of the "ammo-lock" Jax mentioned before. This ammo-lock is caused by attacking or just holding alt-fire when not at full ammo, causing all ammo regeneration to stop. Because this exists, whether intentionally or not, there's no actual incentive to stay in combat once you're out of ammo. This means at any time, someone will just run away because they can't restore ammo and fight at the same time. With certain characters already being difficult to kill with such as Hyper Storm H, this really makes the game feel slow and tedious. It's a simple fix though, I'd just suggest removing this ammo lock and letting classes restore alt-fire ammo without needing to stop firing entirely.

Class Diversity:

(click to show/hide)

This is a pretty simple one, which could possibly tie in with Canonity. Put simply, most classes have very similar attacks or are just a buster with an extra attack. Some examples of classes seeming similar include Jupiter and Shade Man, Guts Man and Uranus, and Drill Man and Ground Man. Both following canon and just robot masters being similar could be causing this, but I would suggest making classes feel a bit more distinct. Giving Shade Man the ability to pick people up was a step in the right direction for making his swoop different from Jupiter, but they're still rather similar as are many classes.

Canonity:

(click to show/hide)

Next, you're going to say "But wait, JC's whole idea is to follow canon as close as possible!" On a serious note though, even though you guys do twist canon to make certain classes better, there's some spots where you fail at that. Bringing up Burner Man's Bear Traps again, in the canon battle he jumps into the sky to lay them everywhere, and he follows this exact pattern in JC as well. Although it looks hilarious and silly to see Burner Man suddenly fly high into the sky (or spikes if you're that unlucky guy in MM2BUB), it doesn't really work that well in an FPS. I guess my suggestion for this one would just let class movement's be a bit more free to the player, not forcing players upwards just because the boss jumped in that one boss fight. I'll say I'm pretty glad that Guts Man can actually walk though. Feel free to completely also shrug this off though, because after all, JC's goal is to follow canon.

Chances are I missed a few things and could've worded certain sections better so if anyone else wants to, feel free to expand on this huge post of mine.

138

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: weapon malfunctions

« on: June 28, 2016, 09:19:56 PM »

By any chance are you playing on a Raspberry Pi? I'm not 100% sure but last time I checked there was an issue with them not being perfectly compatible with Zandronum to where it can't do all of the math correctly causing issues like this.

139

Forum Games Archive / Re: CUTSTUFF MAFIA TOURNAMENT (turn 7 day WITCH TIME)

« on: April 29, 2016, 09:36:06 PM »

Thinking about it now, using my attack on GBT probably isn't the best option, if anything I'm just wasting it. Zero1000's random votes with no evidence are extremely suspicious though.

Redirect Attack --> Zero1000

140

Forum Games Archive / Re: CUTSTUFF MAFIA TOURNAMENT (turn 7 day WITCH TIME)

« on: April 29, 2016, 02:46:48 PM »

That's pretty flimsy logic to assume someone's mafia just because they haven't posted. For all we know they could be another survivor role like Ditto.

Attack --> GBT

141

Forum Games Archive / let us pray Hil is mafia

« on: April 28, 2016, 01:04:29 AM »

Things appear to be looking quite grim for us considering we practically have no leads here. So when in doubt, random vote to the rescue!

Attack --> Hilman

142

W.I.P Forum / it's a spooky mystery =o

« on: April 19, 2016, 01:18:00 AM »

As the previous update predicted, Mega Man Cross X SP has its first map completely finished. With no need to stall, let's start with a screenshot of it.

(click to show/hide)

I'm guessing you guys weren't expecting Fire Man of all stages, certainly a long shot from Toad Man. With that being said, thanks to Knux, not only will the first update include Shadow and Toad Man, but it'll also including the burning man himself. More details coming on this stage later.

Of course this update wasn't just to show off one screenshot, but there's another huge announcement that involves you guys once again! I? ju?st? ?co?uld?n?'t ?ma?k?è t?he? ?d?e?ci?si?o?n? m?y?self ?so? ?o?n?ce ?a?gai?n ?I giv?e ?y?o?ú gu?ys t?h?e ?c?ho?ice of? wha?t yo?u w?an?t ?t?o? s?e?e ?i?n t?he first up?dat?e!? O?h? ?wo?w?, th?at's? pretty? ?ob?nox?iou?s? an?d ?i?n?c?on?veni?e?n?t?. ?Of? c?ou?r?se t?r?a?s?m?issi?on? h?a?d? ?t?o ?t?a??t bre?ak?i?n?g ?úp? d?urin?g ?the? ?up?a?t?e? o?f? ?a?l?? t?imes?. W??e??l??l??,?? ??s?i??n???e ?i?t???'??s c???e?a??r ?????i???s? ??ju?n??k?? ???s???n???'??t? ??g???in??g ??to?? c???l???e??a?r?? ?up? so??????n??,??? ??I'??l???l??? ??j?u??? q?ù??ì?ck??l??y?? ??to?s??? ???t???he ?s?c??r??è?n???s???o??t ???n? he?r?e?? be?f??or?e? ??I? l???ose? ?c??onn???e?c?t?i??o?n ?e????t?ir??e??l??y??.?? Ì???'???m???? ??p???r??????t????t?????y????? ???s?????r???e??? ??y??????u?? ????g????u???y????s???? ???ç?a???n??? ???????a??k????????? ??a?? ????f?????e???w???? ?????s????p???e????u?l??a?????t?????i?????????s????? ????o???n? ?????i???????,????? ???s????o???? ?????g??????o???d????? ?????u???c????k? ?????Í ???g????u????e??s?????s???!?????

(click to show/hide)

A????????????l????????l???????? ??????????h??????????e????????r????????????????????e????s??? ????????u???n????????i???????t?????e??,??????? ??????????s?????????????????????????????????l????y???????? ??????b??????u????????t?? ????????s??u???????????r??????????e????l??????y???????.??????.???.???

143

Forum Games Archive / Re: CUTSTUFF MAFIA TOURNAMENT (turn 1 day - FINALLY)

« on: April 14, 2016, 09:46:57 PM »

There's certainly no need to get rid of someone who's just having some fun with a tradition. The guy who's obsessed with bouncing is a completely different story however.

Attack -> Beed28

144

Forum Games Archive / Re: CUTSTUFF MAFIA TOURNAMENT (signups)

« on: April 12, 2016, 01:48:23 AM »

Got my role

145

Forum Games Archive / Re: CUTSTUFF MAFIA TOURNAMENT (signups)

« on: March 30, 2016, 03:42:16 AM »

Sounds fun, sign me up.

146

MM8BDM Discussion / MM8BDM Discord Room!

« on: March 19, 2016, 11:26:59 PM »

With more and more people taking the switch from Teamspeak and Skype to Discord, I figured I would create a Discord room for MM8BDM. This Discord room can be used for setting up quick games and events in all gamemodes. Along with this, there's different channels for getting quick help on mapping, coding, and spriting. For those who still have no idea what Discord is, this website here can explain it all. https://discordapp.com/

Anyway, here's the join link for those interested. I'm not too experienced with Discord yet however, so the room may end up going through a few changes to make sure everything's in working order, but I do hope this makes managing servers and events a lot easier. https://discord.gg/CC2FKEk

It's also worth noting that if any admins or moderators on this forum are also interested in being admin in the Discord chat, just tell me and I'll give you the proper permissions

147

W.I.P Forum / Re: Mega Man Cross X SP [WIP]

« on: February 15, 2016, 03:25:58 AM »

Hey, this is actually still alive! I figured with both Shadow Man and Toad Man finished aside from polishing, it's about time that I do another update. This update brings just general proof of progress and an update on what needs to be done. For the proof of progress portion, here's a small portion of Toad Man's boss fight.

(click to show/hide)

*Everything in this small clip is subject to change

With both bosses finished now, there's not much that needs to be done, here's an updated Progress List (only shows Shadow Man and Toad Man's progress since they're the only two in v1a).

(click to show/hide)

Shadow Man:
Stage -Taken (LlamaHombre)
Weapon (Shadow Blade) - Finished
Boss - Finished

Toad Man:
Stage - Open
Weapon (Toad Bomb) - Finished
Boss - Finished

*Copied from the main post which is updated as progress is made.

I didn't really look through the video in full, I understand the expansion is a SP mod, though curious if you are going to try and keep the weapons unique from other weapons in the core of 8bdm or not worry about it since they don't show up in the mode and if the weapons don't show up in MP.

Apologies for not being able to address this question earlier, though with the update I feel the time's about right. My goal for the weapons is to make something that's clearly distinct from the core weapons however still make them familiar to the user with things such as their speed and fire rate. An example of this is Toad Bomb, it has the same fire and projectile speed of Crash Bomb, but it can be charged for an original effect. Bosses are already going to be difficult in this SP expansion, so I don't want players to have to also struggle with learning an entirely new set of weapons. There will be some weapons which are completely different from anything seen in the core such as Magnet Shield however, so there's no need to worry that the weapons will be blatant recolors of weapons already in core. That'll conclude this update, next update will most likely bring stage progress or who knows, might be the update that releases v1!

148

W.I.P Forum / Re: Mega Man Cross X SP [WIP]

« on: February 01, 2016, 02:32:57 AM »

Yo, since more interest is coming in for this expansion, I figured I might as well finally make a beta-testing group for Skype! You can put your skype name in this thread or send it over Cutmail if privacy's your dealio, and I'll add you to the group. This group will also double for people who plan to contribute regularly to this expansion, so there's that option if beta-testing isn't really your thing. With that being said, I'm amazed I actually created that HUD poll without actually giving a template on what each HUD would look like, so I'm going to do that right now. It's a crime I didn't do this earlier, sorry about that folks, the poll does allow revoting though, so keep this in mind!

MM8BDM Default:

(click to show/hide)

Mega Man CX Bars (No Icons):

(click to show/hide)

Mega Man CX Bars (Icons):

(click to show/hide)

As you can probably notice, depending on the option, the weapon icons indeed do change to fit with the bar. Also I would like to mention, if something you want to contribute is not on the main page, such as bosses like the Break Refights or the Fortress Stages, still feel free to contribute them, I'll just put them into reserve for use in a later update. The same goes for sprites and stage assets.

149

W.I.P Forum / Re: Mega Man Cross X SP [WIP]

« on: January 30, 2016, 08:43:08 PM »

I think at the moment we don't need Break Beat and Eddie sprites, though if you want to get some done in advance that's fine by me, and as for the bone tiles, those indeed are going to be actors, and they'll need the three variations, bottom, middle, and top.

150

W.I.P Forum / Re: Zdagger67 Project

« on: January 30, 2016, 05:44:20 PM »

Hmm, this is actually pretty interesting, the first JC C-Patch that is. I took a quick look inside of it with SLADE to see what it was an it appears to be sprite replacements. Mostly such as new jumping sprites or new huds but one stood out in particular, Bass was given a new skin with shoulder pads and it actually looks pretty good. I might actually do something with those sprites if you wouldn't mind, perhaps make it into a full skin or something.

This appears to be all that was changed.

Code: [Select]

credits:
Bass new foward,back,walkbackBCDE,walkfowardCE and firing sprites - Zdagger67
Brightman New pound - Zdagger67
Pirateman New HUD - Zdagger67

edited:
fireman HUD - Zdagger67
Metalman jump - Zdagger67
Skullman hand HUD - Zdagger67
Napalm bomb class Projectile - Zadgger67
Timeman hand HUD - Zdagger67

EDIT : I just checked out Heat Man BotRush and it's exactly what it sounds like, JC BotRush except in a Heat Man themed arena, which I'll admit, looks pretty cool. There appears to be an issue with one item spawning though, something called "SolidMeat" which apparently has no frames so it just bugs out and never spawns. Also the map has no way to actually be accessed besides going to it directly as BOTRUSH2 through console commands.