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Messages - NemZ

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106
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: November 11, 2014, 12:09:15 PM »
Lesson 5: Refining Details.

So... not sure how else to really tackle this other than just showing you before and after side by side, along with the source material (new stuff in quote box to set it apart):



Quote



A lot of this step just comes down to having an eye for detail, and that can really only be learned through practice.  If there are any specific areas you'd like to see discussed more thoroughly by all means ask.

One big reason for the differences are that some areas on the original just don't work with NES color limitations.  Things simply have to fit neatly into 16x16 chunks, there's no getting around that.  Take the ladders for instance... the top of the side platforms can't have that silver bit so high, so that had to be squared off though I carried a stripe of black between the two to try and keep them linked.  The ladders were also a weird size and that needed to be narrowed, as 2-tile wide ladders are okay (7, 8 and mm&b justifying it) but 3 with the slides not climbable just doesn't fly.  Likewise the corners of the 'frame' walls had to be squared off, but I moved the diagonal deeper in to keep that general feel intact.

With the pipes, clearly changing the shading pattern does a world of good in making it much sharper and distinct.  In particular I noted the presence of a second smaller pipe as the most interesting detail and made color choices that, while less true to the source gives a pleasing sharpness and emphasis to it.  In this area in particular, as well as the frame above and the bricks to the left, I want to draw special attention to the importance of making the common black color more a part of the design and how much sharper and cartoon-like this makes everything, a key part of maintaining the classic Mega Man style.

With the large blue background graphic I actually deleted half so that the reference showed through directly next to it, then mirrored the finished result.  While time consuming, this part section was just an exercise in bringing back the sharpness that the earlier color simplification obscured.  One technique used the most in this section is using parallel lines at a progressively variable spacing to emphasize a feeling of roundness.

Going back to the bricks, I made a judgement call here to make them a more regular as they just didn't feel classic megaman-y enough.  I also decided to swap the colors of the exposed bricks to match the other area to better tie them together as being the same stuff.  Artistic license, but I think it works.  I might take another shot at the 'lights' in the brick that still aren't quite distinct enough for my tastes though.

Perhaps the most obvious change is the dam area, owing to the extra pallette swaps I discussed the other day.  Adding new shading options there makes the sky work MUCH better, and as a consequence also means I can bring back the yellow pipes in the underwater area as well as letting me kill those troublesome sky blue bricks that were just plain weird earlier.  Still on the underwater area, In refining the non-bacground bits of rock that you're supposed to be able to actually stand on I felt it needed to be more separated from the purple.  The original was brown, but giving it a violet shading job ties it together while keeping it visually distinct... chalk the color difference up to distance and water opacity.  I didn't make all the brownish rocks in this style though to keep it pushed back into the background, and they needed to be squared off anyway as we can't have parallax effects here.

Oh, and one last thing... the outside dam area had those foreground pillar areas that simply can't work in NES, so I reworked those a bit by getting rid of the perspective and fleshing out that exposed section to fill the full width of the column for that area where the player will pass through it.  The NES certainly CAN do foreground tricks like that, but it does so by putting the sprites behind the tile layer (hence why such stages tend to use a solid colored background everywhere, as in airman or toadman), and doing that would kill far, far too many other sections of the map to make that a worthwhile.

Next time:  Some original new tiles to fill in a few gaps and the completely rebuilt stage map.  After that we'll get to animation and finally adapting it to MM8BDM.

107
Resources / Re: Resources Requesting thread!
« on: November 11, 2014, 05:37:20 AM »

108
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: November 09, 2014, 07:26:46 AM »
Nope, sorry.  Palettes don't work that way.  Everything in a given area of a stage has only 4 palettes (3x4+1 common color, usually black... so 13 colors max), and any individual 16x16 pixel square can only use 1 palette... no mixing and matching between them allowed.  Here are the palettes used in the previous lesson, broken up into groups.



So the waterfall for example has 3 shades of blue and the common black.  I haven't gone into animation yet, but all three of those colors are going to be set to a cycling pattern to animate the water, leaving black as the only color available that isn't moving... hence the dividers have to be solid black.  The sky/trees area would have to be a different palette unless you want it to also be flashing between colors, much in the same way that when you charge the megabuster the 1ups flash because they are using the same sprite palette as mega man himself.

As to the color choices keep in mind again we only have 4 sets to work with in a given area.  The water takes 1, the pipes/wall frames take 1, the blue backgrounds with (eventually) flashing lights take 1, and the interior of the walls + background bricks take 1.  That's all 4, with no good break points to load or change them out so the dam background MUST somehow work with just those available colors.  Further, the same background must look identical when used in the water area, which means it MUST also work with the 4 palettes we're using there.  That's a whole lot of limitations to work around, and the dam area is by far the most challenging part to deal with because of it.

...or so I initially thought.  In looking at it more closely I noticed that the blue backgrounds don't show up for a while in the second area and there's one room between the dam and blue background sections so technically there is a possibility we could sneak in another palette change.  Further, that big open underwater area is just plain not going to work with a NES Mega Man engine (I'm trying to stay in the mindset of 'romhack' for this project thus far... conversion to MM8BDM will come later) so that whole section would need to be heavily reworked, and that can easily free up a palette to keep the dam both consistent between the two areas and brighten it all up a bit.

Specifically, this palette and this rearrangement of the stage map:




109
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: November 07, 2014, 05:45:10 AM »
Why not fire up your graphics software of choice and try it out, then share the results?   :mrgreen:

On further reflection I do agree there's probably a better way to do it, but I'm still interested to see what you come up with.

110
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: November 04, 2014, 08:46:03 AM »
...nobody even going to try?  Disappointing, guys.  

Lesson 4: Strategic Palette Use

Okay, let's pick up where we left off and start trimming this all down to fit the NES limitations.  I've also added a few labels to keep it all straight:



As I said in earlier parts, we only have 4 palettes to work with here (with an option to swap them mid-level).  I also said that the animation effects I want to make a priority will require two of them, labeled #1 (water) and #2 (backgrounds with glowing lights).  Obviously these will require some palette swaps, but the mechanic stays the same so it makes sense to just set these aside as-is.

With palette 1 the water in the outdoor area is going to need some touching up, and that needs to start with addressing the angled dividers in the downflowing areas.  There's just no room for anything but black there as the rest will be cycling for animation, and I also cut it off to fit the 16x16 square.

Regarding Palette 2, all the little touches of falling green water just can't happen.  In fact there is still one too many colors just for the blue areas as it is, so we have to lose some of that definition.  As it's a background it makes sense to go darker, so the lightest color goes away.  I also switched it to a bluer color so that the green water we DO keep will stand out a little more.  In the underwater areas of palette 2 (with one color swapped) I only filled in the remainder of the 16x16 blocks with black and removed a few areas that just wouldn't work... we'll have to get back to that later on with an alternate to the angled slopes.

After that it gets tricky, and we only have 2 options open in each case.  Here's where I went with it, with the rest of my choices explained below:



Looking it over I noted that areas marked A and D are the same across both non-underwater areas, so it makes sense to me to fuse those together into one palette.  The original had little yellow lights there, which works well with the largely yellow pipes.  I know the pipes look a bit crappy at present, but that's fixable in the next step.  Looking to the underwater area, a slight tweak to the same pallette would cover the areas marked E.

With only one palette left that means we're forced to do a similar arrangement with areas B and C (and the palette swap).  In both cases I recolored the green water leakage and gave up on the lights because of color limitations, then used a switch in color focus to differentiate the two different sections as much as possible.  The actual colors were altered, partially because the bluer background would clash with the blue bricks and partially to work with the outdoor areas.

Speaking of the outdoor areas G and H, we're already out of palette options so these must use the existing options.   Getting green trees and blue skies in area G is why the interior colors are as they are now.  Making H use the dark blue of 2 rather than grey or brown as it is in the original stage is a choice to help push it into the background, which otherwise would clash with the outdoor platforms in group A.  Making it just a blue/black is to insure it works with the purple in the underwater section as the dam graphic needs to work there as well.  This however also means it's possible to add flashing lights there, and I plan to work some into the mix in the next lesson.

Finally all that's left to work out in the underwater area is what to do with area F.  We're somewhat forced here due to the colors we need to still have access to for the outdoor dams in the hidden areas, but I went with a middle shade of aqua for the edges that would stand out against the background without going obnoxiously bright, basing it more on what the colors looked like with the water filter over everything.  The yellow pipes sadly have to go, but it's a good place to put the sky blue I suppose.  Kinda have my hands tied at this point by all the other pieces that depend on it being this way.

So next time I'll get down to the nitty gritty details, reworking these tiles one pixel at a time to bring back as much detail as I can manage (where those saved layers will really pay off) and also to correct some of the problems created by removing colors, such as all the green water from the #2 backgrounds.  We'll also finally get rid of the last few impossible areas, such as the side sections by the ladders.  By the end of next lesson it will be possible to rebuild the whole stage map in 8bit form!

In the meantime, keep in mind that we've passed the point where there are any right answers.  What would you guys have done differently, and why?

111
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 30, 2014, 11:28:32 PM »
GBC working with appropriate cartridges can do up to 56 colors at once (8 4-color background palettes and 8 3-color sprite palettes) and has the same overall total palette options as the SNES, more than 30k total colors.

For contrast, the NES can have at max 25 colors on screen at once and only has a functional palette of ~56 colors total.

112
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 28, 2014, 05:07:56 AM »
Okay... This is going to be quite a thing!  I'm not exaggerating at all when I say this might be the trickiest conversion I've ever attempted.  That said, USUALLY it's not hard.  But sometimes it can be.

Lesson 3: Separation and Rough Draft

So we're looking at Toxic Seahorse from MMX3.  (it's actually much bigger than this obviously, links above for the full version)



Giving it a quick look over we can determine there are essentially 3 parts to the level, 2 slightly different interiors and an exterior water zone.  The primary gimicks of the stage are flowing water and glowing lights, so we want to keep those in here somehow... which means that's two dedicated palettes right there that need color cycling effects for animation.  That leaves just two palettes to do everything else we need done... a tall order!  Take special noted that the waterfall/damn area is used in two sections so however we end up covering that will need to be compatible with two different areas, so almost certainly we're going to have compromise pretty hard there.

But let's worry about that later.  Before we can do anything further we need to extract tiles from the map so we can work with them in a more orderly fashion.  Usually I do this in Tiled, a very fast and easy tileset manager which is good both for pulling tiles out and for building maps back out of existing tilesets.  In this case however, with the slight misalignment issues I mentioned earlier I had to do it the slow way with photoshop. When forced to work this way I find it helps tremendously to turn on a 16 pixel grid (under the view menu) then just move the image to align it as needed and copy/paste rectangular selections to a new layer, then arrange them as you go.  

Preferably your final result should be organized into related sets and broken up by areas where they'd need to load, like so (taking the liberty of cutting out the backgrounds on a few to keep it simpler for now):



Next we need to start downsampling.  The SNES obviously has a much larger available color palette and can also have as many as 8 active pallettes with 16 colors each so we're going to have to do some major cutbacks to force it down to NES standards.  Before you do anything else I strongly suggest you make a copy of the image on a new layer, then lock the one on top and turn it's visibility off.  This way you'll always be able to compare it to the original with just a single click, which will be VERY handy later.

I find the fastest way to do downsimpling is just to use a selector tool (with tolerance set to 0) and manually pick a few colors that are close together in shading on a sprite and just paint them all with the closest NES color available.  Generally I start by just picking out the darkest areas on all tiles right up front and making them all black (or whichever colors on each are closest whatever you want to use as a common color if NOT black).  After than I do the highlights, usually just 2-3 colors this time.  Finally I decide how to break up the final 2, and as this is where most of the detail is you might need to try a couple of options on separate layers before deciding which you think is the best balance.  

At this stage you don't have to be super picky about how many colors are on each tile... that we'll get to later.  For now the goal is just to rough it all in.  This really just comes down to your own taste, as very often there just won't be a color that is anywhere near what you want.  This was especially an issue with the very low-saturation wall interior sections, and I also went ahead and just ignored the water filter overlay for section 2.  Here's what I worked out in my rough pass:



Well, it's a good start.  Good enough some might just stop here and say close enough... but we aren't going to be lazy like that, are we?  Heck no!   :mrgreen:

Next lesson we'll make the sacrifices to cut it down to just 4x4 which will sadly require losing even more accuracy and detail.  Remember to save your working photoshop file with the layers intact, as you'll definately want the reference when it's time to bring those details back as best we can!

That's all for now, but go ahead and discuss how you would cut the colors down further.  I'm especially interested in what you guys can come up with for tackling that waterfall!  If anyone has a more specific question on something I may have described too vaguelly just let me know here as well.

I expect this to run about 8 parts in total.  Along the way we should reach the point where following these steps you could make your own NES-ized recreation of the original map rip, then a working NES stage, then everything necessary for texturing of a MM8BDM stage... and finally some advice for making completely origianl tilesets.

113
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 25, 2014, 05:35:14 AM »
Well, I suppose that settles that.  Quite a mess of a map, but I guess that makes it a solid tutorial.

And I do mean mess.  Whomever ripped this thing left it out of alignment a pixel or two so it's going to be a little work just to straighten it all out before I can properly separate it.

EDIT:  After a quick replay I should note that I had forgotten the stage had parallax scrolling shenanigans involved, so I can't really fault the map creator on that one. In fact all things considered I have to say whomever it was did a pretty good job!

114
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:52:10 AM »
Last day for you guys to make suggestions and come to some sort of agreement.

115
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:29:49 PM »
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
I should also note, different emulators do display different colors.

Yeah, they vary a bit depending on the output source.  Like I said right above the palette image:

Quote
The Nes has a very small palette of colors. This one, specifically, though due to the way the colors were coded they would look slightly different depending on your TV so there is no one-and-only true palette that you can absolutely depend on. I just stick with this version.

So really the key is to just pick SOME standard and stick to it, though which one is up to your personal taste.  Do that and nobody can fault you.  And actually I think I created the NES palette I use in photoshop by inputting the RGB values directly based on info over at NESDEV.

=====

Also, guys?  I appreciate the suggestions but you seem to be lacking map links.  Would be useful both for me and just to make certain everyone is on the same page with what is being discussed.  Snake and/or Seahorse would both be fine choices though, sure.  :D

116
Resources / Re: NemZ's tileset emporium
« on: October 21, 2014, 04:12:52 AM »
Cross-promotion bump to point you guys at what I've got going on over HERE for those of you who might not ever look at the tutorials forum.

117
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:03:59 PM »
Okay... first up, answers:
(click to show/hide)

Lesson 2: Planning and Preparation

The first step is obviously picking a map.  Any map will do, but it is MUCH easier when you have a full rip of the stage available.  Before doing anything else take some time to look at it, figgure out how it works and do some planning.  Analyze how the different scrolling room sections would be broken up and how that would affect palette limitations.  Keep a sharp eye out for places where a new palette is introduced suddenly and check if that's just using one that hadn't shown up before, if it's a reusing previous tiles but with a new palette applied, or if it's something more drastic that might require special attention.

For example, let's look at Knight Man's stage: (spoilered because it's kinda huge... might want to view that in a new tab)

(click to show/hide)

Okay, so at first glance this is REALLY colorful.  red/orange, green, another green, blue, purple, pink... lots of stuff going on here!  And that's not even getting into how the whole stage is given a makeover if you revisit later... which sadly (or fortunately?) I don't have a convenient pic of.  With this much color it's a sure bet some palate changes are going on.  So, let's walk through it and see what's what.

First screen gives us two different green block sections that will form the backbone of the whole stage, a bright orange sky and a bit of purple background wall peeking in.  That's 4 palettes right from the start... Capcom is just showing off here!  As you travel down into castle the sky disappears... a good sign that it's being reloaded to something else while we can't see it.  

Next there's an unusual horizontal transition and the purple goes away as well because there's a fancy Dustman-like crusher room, which is animated by scrolling the background tiles downward, hence the need to go to all black otherwise.  After another transition, the purple is back, but what has palette #4 gotten up to?

A lot, apparently!  The next room is just graphically fantastic.  Animated wheel tiles, animated flame tiles, and an enemy sprite which makes use of two different palettes (which is why it's the only thing in this room, much like a boss).  The wheels are the same old green and nothing else is flashing so we're looking at a tile replacement animation, but the flames are new and the parts are color cycling, so that's a completely different form of background animation.  This is actually our missing palette #4, with the purple just a non-cyling part that matches with the surrounding walls.

The next few screens are missing the torches, which is kind of a letdown... but also a sure sign something else is in store again.  Sure enough, when we climb up a bit further we see the sky tiles are back, but in a new color.  Nothing is color cycling here, so they must have needed the time to turn that code off and reassign it back to the previous sky pattern.  Those with a keen eye may have noticed the windows earlier actually used this blue rather than purple, so the transition can be pegged as happening while we were in the second screen with rotating wheels and a solid black background.

Next we're back inside... but now all the previously purple walls are pink!  Those devious Capcom guys used one color swap to distract us while they did a second one in short order!  Pressing onwards we see some blue pipes which are using the same palette as the night sky earlier, but we get yet another animated green tile, this time using sprite overlays for it's bounce reactions (which you can tell because they don't ALL flash on a bounce).

Finally we get to one of the boss rooms, still using the same lime green/yellow green/pink/blue... or are we?  Take a closer look at those tapestries and you'll find they also have pink in them and filling in around the pointed bottoms.  I guess they just couldn't resist doing one last palette change while were in the boss hallway!

So how about that... I bet you guys have much greater appreciation for just how amazing this stage is.  Remember that the next time someone complains about the mega man games all being the same after the first one!  Honestly 6 isn't high on my personal favorites list because I just don't think a lot of it is all that fun and I dislike the palette choices themselves in many areas because it's just too clashing and bright for my tastes, but there's no denying they really pulled out all the stops in designing these stages around the NES's limitations.

======

So, to proceed from here I'll ask you guys to pick a single stage from any mega man game I haven't yet converted... (wily wars mm3, x2+, maybe even MMZ or ZA?) in my other thread but for which maps are readily available at places such as http://www.vgmaps.com or elsewhere.  So cast your votes by posting a link to the map of your choice, discuss it amongst yourselves, and then I'll start working through whatever you guys pick as an example for next few lessons, showing you how I tackle it from start to finish.  I'd like to have the selection finalized by Friday so I can work on it over the weekend, okay?

We'll get to advice on creating original tilesets and tile animation later on as well.  :D

=====

If you'd like more practice, you can also have a look at what the same team did to Ground man's stage HERE  (run through Google Translate), with the menus on the right sidebar.  There are also links to check out behind the scenes stuff at the mm7fc and mm8fc projects as well!

118
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 18, 2014, 06:21:17 AM »
^No, they're for a mm&b game they started to do but did not complete.  The link I gave for the stage map is on the site where what little they did get done is kept.

I'll be back on Monday for part 2.

119
Tutorial Collection / Re: Tiles... they really aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 18, 2014, 02:07:30 AM »
My bad, must have hotlinked them the first time.  I rehosted the images so they should be fine now.

And here's the entire stage made with these tiles.  Might help spot some problems if you remember how Mega Man games work with screen transitions.

http://cdn23.atwikiimg.com/rockmanforte/?plugin=ref&serial=8

120
Tutorial Collection / Tiles... they (usually) aren't that hard, guys.
« on: October 17, 2014, 09:19:02 PM »
So I mentioned this briefly in my other thread, but I thought it might be good to put it here too and maybe answer a few questions for people who want to do this stuff for themselves.

Lesson 1:  Hardware Limitations

First, if you're going for accuracy you need to know how the NES actually handles graphics.  If you don't care about accuracy... well, at least you should know what limitations you're breaking so you know why it doesn't look quite right, or have some idea about just how much you're bending things.

The Nes has a very small palette of colors.  This one, specifically, though due to the way the colors were coded they would look slightly different depending on your tv so there is no one-and-only true palette that you can absolutely depend on.  I just stick with this version.



The way the NES processes graphics is that it places 8x8 pixel blocks into a grid to form the graphic base, then applies color palettes to them in 16x16 pixel blocks.  The graphics seem to be 16x16 in size because of this (and in practical terms for MM8BDM they probably should be anyway), but are actually put together from these smaller pieces which can thus be used in multiple places to create a lot of variety with minimal actual data.  Incidentally, the lack of color is the reason why the GB titles could get away with so many thin platforms to stand on.  It's actually the exact same graphics engine just with a single universal palette (or two for GBC, one for sprites and one for tiles).

The NES only actually uses four 3-color palettes + a background color they all have in common, which is usually (but not always) black.  Every 16x16 area has to fit one of these 4 available palettes... though the later games sometimes changed one of the palettes midway through the stage to broaden that range a bit.  The sky in Knightman, for example, or the train cars in chargeman.  In general though you should try and stick to just 4 per stage.  Also, you ever notice that as you walk forwards sometimes in the old games you can see the tiles are all one color then change quickly?  that's because they're all being applied with palatte #1 by default until the hardware finishes rendering them fully and assigns the correct 16x16 palette areas.

Sprites also have the same restriction by the way, though because they often use a black outline and white for highlights they often really only have one other color to work with unless you get into sprite layering.

I'll add more to this thread later, but if there are any questions on what's here so far let me know.

Edit:

Actually here, have a homework assignment as well.  Look at this tileset from the MM8FC guys and discuss amongst yourselves what is wrong (several things, actually):


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