Messages

121

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: June 02, 2011, 01:57:43 PM »

When we had many class servers up, I started to get good with heat, and his hit and run style...
It seems that you cant hit them head on, but you have to try to graze them with it.
You have to hit them with one of his fists while he does it...

Heet, and his takk'L that is.

122

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 31, 2011, 07:54:12 AM »

*Cough*

Woodman would be a lot better if leaves fell around him while his Leaf Shield is up.

*Wheeze*

/Pats your back, and offers you some medicine.

You could also allow them to pierce, increase the hitbox size of the leaves... in a thunder beam/pharoahshot/atomicfire type way( Where part of it can skim the ground or walls and not dissapear...), increase the knockback of it, by alot, have them scatter after a certain distance, and change to ripping as they fall and... lets boost his def against all blunt non-fire weps.

Okay..... That may have been a bit much, but whenever he runs out of ammo hes pretty much derped up his wooden derper.

123

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 31, 2011, 03:07:56 AM »

/eats the cookie happily.

Thank all of youse for the complements!

I dont like how wood feels as if he has low dps and how he feels all around slow.
What is wood supposed to counter again?

124

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 30, 2011, 09:41:09 PM »

/me is being green by saving space.. I want a cookie.
Someone give me a cookie.

(click to show/hide)

Of course, It was the reason why old hard was not op, you just had to keep your distance and not rush him like an idiot, most of the time you wouldnt even take a hit.... Though his hp needs to be scaled with the pickups...  But once again, pay attention, HE HAS TO GET CLOSE TO SPIN YOU that seems to get left out alot.

That's the thing! He has barely any problem getting up close to people at all! Dodging and weaving is much simpler with his speed, so hitting with something that isn't homing becomes a problem, and the only two homing attacks won't kill him fast enough until he gets into close range where they aren't that effective. What are you trying to kill him with? How are you aiming? Shouldn't you pick up on his patterns? Isnt elec faster and stronger, and by stronger I don't mean just spamming your alt, I mean all around, being faster and stronger projectiles that are harder to dodge, and they pierce.

Seller is pretty much saying, that if top cant have an instakill attack, then afterwards, who wont complain about the others.

I'm not saying that Top shouldn't have an instakill attack, but he shouldn't be able to use it on a dime as he is currently capable of. Every other class that has a potential OHKO is A: Not guaranteed (or atleast not to the degree Top Spin is) and/or B: Has a cooldown timer. Top Man has none of these. I'm all for letting him keep the first part, but ye gods add a moment required to recharge on that.How is topman usually killing you? Do you not check your back, or do you ignore corners?

You seem to forget how important health is, especially with a very predictable class, so....... I think you should fight more topmen.

You don't think I'm fighting enough top men as it is? I'll say this again in case you didn't caught it the first time. Health, atleast not in this case, isn't as bloody important as you make it out to be. It's a disadvantage, sure, but it's not an overpowering one, and it certainly isn't enough to counter everything I stated above.In this game, most weapons fire quickly, and fly slowly, it favors the defensive more than the offensive, and when I say that, I mean if you just play defensively you will win most of the time... Defensively with knowledge...

And I still don't quite get it... Top is Farrrr op, but Needle is.. Balanced? From what I've seen needle has far less trouble wiping out crowds than top.

He may be slightly OP, but not by a large degree. The SGC stun needle effect he could certainly do without. If he requires further balancing beyond that point a simple change to his ammo capacity should do the trick.
I asked for something more creative than just changing a side effect....... ahem.......

(click to show/hide)

Introducing.........  The Needlemang Idea!!!!

To start off, lets all think of how Wily's ammo is done.Are you thinkin'?
Now visualize Needle having a similar concept!...But not the standing still to recharge thing...
Now... Lemme show you more of what I mean!
 
Ammo bar below
|x| -This here green area is when he fires slowly(at about half his
|x| current rate, as well as slightly less damage(like killing in around 12 hits))
|x|
|x| -This yellow-green area is when he fires almost  the way he does
|x| now(like .7 his current fire rate, while retaining his reduced damage).
|x| -This orange placey, place will be where hes exactly the same as
|x| he is now(but without his current stun).
|x|
|x| -Now... this red area... is where he fires around 2x as fast as he
|x| does now,(and with slightly faster needles, but he also moves at about the speed of v3a stoneman while firing this fast...) other than that, its the same as orange area.

All of this is assuming it would take 1 second for needle to drain 10%(1 x thing up there) of his ammo.

Now before I get OP'd at, theres a few more things to add...
-The less ammo he has left, the longer it takes him to stop and or resume firing.
-If he runs out of ammo, he is forced to wait( as if he overheated, or jammedI dunno...) until he has completely recharged all his ammo before firing again.
-If theres a way to make his Melee recharge his ammo faster, unless he jammed, that should totally be there(anyway to make it louder, too?).

END

/saves that in notepad now.

Edit...... Color error thing..

125

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 30, 2011, 09:14:16 PM »

/Points at...
-page 204 http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1743&start=2030
-page 206 http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1743&start=2050
Most of my explanation for the defendant are on these pages, if it will please the jury.

(click to show/hide)

Dying isn't a disadvantage to him...it actually is to a certain point.  If Topman dies 15 times during the match and gets 25 kills, is that OP?

It is when the 15 frags are all awarded to different people and can be done in less than a couple of minutes. He is the class that achieves the most kills contrary to his amount of deaths in the shortest amount of time. Even if all those 15 frags belong to the different team, that's still a 10+ frag advantage over the other team gathered together in a very small timeframe. And then it keeps escalating.
/pay attention, brohammed.

However, in smaller servers he has trouble even getting near people.

I certainly don't see it. I've repeatedly seen people see him coming from miles, with few other people around, and he still gets up in their face and kills him. Not only does his inherent speed help catch up to people, it's also brilliant for dodging. Hitting a fast target at range is a larger problem in this game than in most other FPSes; One of the reasons why Possession and CTF have very iffy gameplay. To use doom terms, most games make use of hitscan or something similar to this: Range and speed doesn't matter that much as long as you have a decent aim. But here, where most if not all weapons are projectiles that can with varying difficulty be sidestepped, speed is a much larger advantage than one would think at first.
Of course, It was the reason why old hard was not op, you just had to keep your distance and not rush him like an idiot, most of the time you wouldnt even take a hit.... Though his hp needs to be scaled with the pickups...  But once again, pay attention, HE HAS TO GET CLOSE TO SPIN YOU that seems to get left out alot.

Claiming Topman should be nerfed in some way is like saying Bombman shouldn't get Bombs and should whip people to death with the fuses of the bombs.  To end this argument is to realize every class is different and only looking at one class is a bad way of balancing the rest of the classes in a way everyone finds acceptable.

This is a very inaccurate analogy.
Seller is pretty much saying, that if top cant have an instakill attack, then afterwards, who wont complain about the others.

tl;dr version, every class has advantages here and there, one of Topman's advantages is revenge killing.

No see, that's the thing. Top Man has a fuckton of advantages and a ridiculously small amount of disadvantages. Health is pretty much the only one, which isn't as great a penalty as everyone makes it out to be.
You seem to forget how important health is, especially with a very predictable class, so....... I think you should fight more topmen.

And I still don't quite get it... Top is Farrrr op, but Needle is.. Balanced? From what I've seen needle has far less trouble wiping out crowds than top.
I didn't want to imply that needle is op... but..............Um... I'm sorry, needleman...
Though he is only slightly past the o and the p zone of love.

(click to show/hide)

|topman|/

Topman's spin circles him, but it's a projectile and doesn't move. So, when Topman's moving forwards...

__|topma/n|

He moves into the radius, and this makes it harder (certainly not impossible!) to OHKO people when you're moving forwards. That's why I suggested moving backwards, y'see? Depending on the user's arc, it can be wise to jump, if Toppy's hitting you at the end of his jump and not the start.

I'll nerf him when the community agrees on it!

Another way to dodge the topspin is to move perpendicular to them, most of the time, if you dont get predictable that is, you wont even get hit by the spin... Thats also how you can survive a mega topspin.

(click to show/hide)

one counter to topman is skullman, just stand still when topman comes then as he attacks, activate the barrier, not only can you out run topman but kill him in 5 fast shots, magnetman used to be a counter (not sure if he is anymore now that his alt dosent pull anymore) but before, you could stop topman cold with magnet pull at the right moment, some classes also need to be tweaked abit
dust easily killing ringman with no effort, skullman can't seem to charge from other skull shots and some others

Magnet has alot of trouble vs any class that is around mega speed, on a small to medium sized map... mags dont home in well on the faster classes... or any class if they strafe run... Even hardman can straferun past mags.
As for dust V ring... dust loses to skull... I guess that ring would beat dust if he just kept moving.

126

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: Summer Classical Duel Tournament (6 open spots left)

« on: May 30, 2011, 09:36:33 AM »

Can I request to be in the same group as Muz? I still have a grudge over that Top Man incident and I know that Muz is a pretty cool guy.

Aw... But I am new here.
This will be my first duel match...
How i shot?

127

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 30, 2011, 09:30:29 AM »

I'd say... Either way he's still the best at what he does, so a nerf like that wouldn't change alot.
Something else needs to be done.... Liiiike no stun on his alt's shots and less gain from using the primary.

128

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: Summer Classical Duel Tournament (7 open spots left)

« on: May 30, 2011, 06:21:33 AM »

Iiiiiiiiiiii'lllllllllllllllllll join!
-Umm I be in that, there central time.
-I'm available late at night... like 10 or 11pm central to around 1 to 2am central, but on the weekends I'm alot more free.... Just not on saturday.
-As for tier, Id say 500... Put me in the lowest of the low, how I shot, oh how I shot.

129

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 30, 2011, 06:14:37 AM »

Teeeeeeem!
Whats the status on v5c?

I has candies for whoever answers first.

130

Help & Editing / How do I keep bots from running off?

« on: May 22, 2011, 10:09:13 PM »

How do I set the linedef thingies to prevent bots from falling?

131

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 20, 2011, 11:55:44 PM »

Oh damn, lotsa text.

(click to show/hide)

Where as top has slower flying 15 damage dealing tops, or his not a guaranteed instakill alt.

Oh bullshit. Don't come telling me that getting an OHKO with Elec Man is easier than doing it with Top Man.

Haha... Didnt say it was, because you dont have to use only his insta kill lightning, as you have his powerful primary.
All you need then is to know how to dodge.
How many elecmen have you fought?
Just wondering.

And as for top v hard... Its not nearly as bad crash v air.

I've noticed this a few times, but are you really calling Crash Man overpowered, yet defending Top Man? That doesn't make much sense to me. Sure Crash Bombs are strong, but that doesn't make them any easier to hit with. You only get 4 shots before you have to refill again. Sure his jump height and speed are decent, but how are you calling Crash Man that bad?

Didnt say he was over powered, I said airman has a bad matchup against him,and that hard has alot less trouble killing top than air does crash, or ice to fire, ect,ect,ect.
Crash is essentially a stronger sparkman, and I dont think spark is op.

The logic behind a Topman ammo bar actually makes sense, since most of the characters mentioned have one to prevent spamming

While Elecman is only partially threatening with the Elec beam, The lightning zap is what really gets used to death, and as a surprise move, no less (like anyone is going to try and run up to your face and Elec zap you. That'd be too big an oppotunity for countering) And if the player misses his zap, then he has no choice to retreat at least until he has more ammo to try and get another sneak shot off.

Blizzardman also has a weapon that's not all that threatening: 4 snowflakes that are way too easy to dodge.  So what's everyone who uses Blizzardman going to rely on? Blizzard bowl.  Another move used as a surprise, this one tends to be a lot easier to miss with, and Blizzardman's sluggish speed makes him easy to chase down and kill.

Topman is exactly like these two.  Hitting with the spinning tops is too much of an iffy process (not to mention its damage isn't all that great).  But Top spin is how Topmen get all their kills. And being allowed to spam it again and again just makes it harder for anyone else to get a hit in.  If Topmen had to run away to recharge, it'd be far different.  People wouldn't have to worry about being surprised by him.  The way it is now, to really get a frag on a Topman, you have to gang up on him, or sneak up on him, and hit him hard and fast (hence my statement about needleman). Besides, running away wouldn't be that hard because he's a pretty fast little cretin.

Remember that top has to get up to you to kill you, if there was an ammo bar it would just be the same as elec then.
I still get instakilled by elec's alt, but as with topspin, thats my fault, also elec is faster than top.
As for bliz's primary being up...you need to fight more Blizmen then.

132

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 20, 2011, 12:47:39 PM »

Well Muzaru, both Elec Man and Top Man have to get close to their oppenents to successfully use a potential OHKO move. However I have been successfully Top Spinned as Hard Man, yet on the same idea, as Hard Man, I don't recall being killed by lightning from Elec Man. Not to mention while Top Man has to jump, he doesn't have to be facing his oppenent. He just has to be nearby. Other than needing to jump, Top Spin is multitudes better than Lightning.

The main problem I find witht he current Top Man is that the second he appears, he can use Top Spin. So anyone nearby when he spawns in instantly dead. This basically guarentees Top Man a frag after every death. Not to mention what he can get normally from just plain getting the jump on people all the time.

All I'm saying is if classes like Blizzard and Elec Man MUST have ammunition bars, I think Top Man getting ammunition is just obvious. You all claim his Top Spin is to surprise people. An ammunition bar for Top Spin would do nothing to hinder that. That way if you mess up, you can't jump up almost right away and Top Spin again.

Any class that has around neutral resistance to elec's alt will die in one point blank hit, and that encompasses most of the roster, also its aimable, meaning you don't have to hit up close, you can take a third to half off from across the map with it. Don't forget about elec's 3 hit kill primary, and being the second fastest now, all you need to do is keep your distance.

Where as top has slower flying 15 damage dealing tops, or his not a guranteed instakill alt.
From what I've heard elec has also gotten a speed buff. Being that him running to you should be a red flag of what hes trying to do, its only really strong in large to medium scale matches, but top in 1v1 is easier than 1v1'ing elec and waaaay easier than 1v1'ing most blizmen. Don't forget that bliz bowl also kills almost a fifth of the classes in one hit, and you're invincible while doing it, and if that fails you have your fast, homing 3-4 hit kill primary.
I still say top is okay, if any thing just force him to lose all momentum after using topspin, and by that I dont mean hold him there for 1-2 seconds.

And as for top v hard... Its not nearly as bad as Ice v fire, crash v air, or dust v skull.

133

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 20, 2011, 04:37:06 AM »

I like Needle Man the way he is, I don't see why he should change. Maybe he could do away with the SGC Needle Stun effect, but he doesn't need something a drastic a change as yours. I also fail to see what that change would really achieve. Make it harder for him to actually begin with attacking people?

The whole idea would allow us to both nerf needle and buff him... In a way...
He would be good on def at the start, then great on offense at the end.
It keeps him from being just run and shoot, run and shoot, as he would now be more versatile, yet more vulnerable at the same time.
I for one dont really mind, hes been my favorite since v1a, and I thought v1a needle was good.
Kinda like how we should revert the plant buster's damage, and fire rate, not the ammo consumption.

And I really dont think top needs a nerf, as he only gets good kills when your opponent Is busy.
I actually think its easier for elec to get kills than top.
Comparing bliz and top...... Bliz is alot stronger than top IMO.

134

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 19, 2011, 03:04:58 AM »

Actually I already reported that and it works with any support item, not just tango

Aww you got me..........

Whats the progress on v5c?

I wonder how things would be if all the class hitbox thingies were fixed.

Umm REPOSTAGE!

(click to show/hide)

Introducing.........  The Needlemang Idea!!!!

To start off, lets all think of how Wily's ammo is done.Are you thinkin'?
Now visualize Needle having a similar concept!...But not the standing still to recharge thing...
Now... Lemme show you more of what I mean!
 
Ammo bar below
|x| -This here green area is when he fires slowly(at about half his
|x| current rate, as well as slightly less damage(like killing in around 12 hits))
|x|
|x| -This yellow-green area is when he fires almost  the way he does
|x| now(like .7 his current fire rate, while retaining his reduced damage).
|x| -This orange placey, place will be where hes exactly the same as
|x| he is now(but without his current stun).
|x|
|x| -Now... this red area... is where he fires around 2x as fast as he
|x| does now,(and with slightly faster needles, but he also moves at about the speed of v3a stoneman while firing this fast...) other than that, its the same as orange area.

All of this is assuming it would take 1 second for needle to drain 10%(1 x thing up there) of his ammo.

Now before I get OP'd at, theres a few more things to add...
-The less ammo he has left, the longer it takes him to stop and or resume firing.
-If he runs out of ammo, he is forced to wait( as if he overheated, or jammedI dunno...) until he has completely recharged all his ammo before firing again.
-If theres a way to make his Melee recharge his ammo faster, unless he jammed, that should totally be there(anyway to make it louder, too?).

END

135

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (V5B - B-B-B-BALANCE PATCH!)

« on: May 18, 2011, 05:24:02 PM »

Drillman:  First off, to Muzaru, complaining about him using Tango is touchy anyway, considering Tango's uses (with effective results anyway) are very limited.

Well the glitch is still new, I havent seen anyone else do it.

I wasn't complaining either.....

/looks down...