MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Leaf Shield)

[Watzup7856]

Really like the changes, feels like I have control over them and does a decent amount of damage

I'd like to see another weapon being discussed for either Pharaoh Shot or Pizza Cutters Silver Tomahawk

[Korby]

As a quick note because I forgot to mention it in my post, I don't think discussing Silver Tomahawk is the best idea because the main problem with it is its ungodly speed. Reducing that would drastically reduce its power.

I'd rather us talk about Leaf Shield so that we can get a clearer idea of where to head with its rework.
Although Pharaoh Shot wouldn't be a terrible idea either as we're still split on exactly what to do to it.

[Max]

make it repel people instead of projectiles

[Ceridran]

sorry about that

[LlamaHombre]

Alright, so I think that's about all we're gonna get out of Search Snake. Thanks everyone, now let's move on to our next topic.

Code: [Select]

Pharaoh Shot ---- IIII (Technically should've had 1 tally last time, my b)
Silver Tomahawk - III
Leaf Shield ----- I
Flash Stopper --- I
Scorch Wheel ---- I
Noise Crush ----- I
Star Crash ------ I

Overwhelming majority goes to Pharaoh Shot. Let's make some noise.

[Caprice]

If I were to go about changing Pharaoh Shot, I'd make its hitbox smaller, make it do most of its damage based on direct hits like most projectiles, and severely tone down the explosion damage (where you'd take 15-20 damage tops if you were in the middle of the radius, as an example). There's really not that much needed to be said, it's just too big and reliable compared to its damage output.

[Russel]

I remember a thought someone had some time ago- quick charge, relatively fast projectile, but deals around 30-45 damage.
Retention of the explosion is up for debate, but I personally liked the direction this seemed to aim.

Regardless of what changes on it, I do feel it should still be powerful due to its classification as a Power weapon in addition to its stringent placement on some maps in order to avoid it being too out of reach for something somewhat weak.

[Gumballtoid]

The big thing this weapon has over other charge weapons is that its charge is completely silent. Because of that, I think that while it should be powerful, it should be weaker than other such weapons by some margin. As it stands, it charges relatively fast, so if the explosion were taken out and the projectile did around 30-40 damage as Lego said, I think it would fill a good niche.

Also its other charge levels ought to have some merit. I like the idea of being able to peg dudes with little fireballs after the sun softens them up.

[Messatsu]

The explosion was added because the weapon was terrible before this change.  Here's some other items to keep in mind.
1.) Hard Knuckle and Drill Bomb are also both power weapons.  Since Pharaoh Shot is also a power weapon, it should be in the same relative strength level of weapons like this.
2.) The weapon should be as unique as possible compared to other weapons within the category.  Off the top of my head, I think this is the only weapon that explodes and charges.
3.) Accuracy.  While some liberties are obviously being taken.  It should always FEEL like Pharaoh Shot.  Too fast a charge and it starts to deviate a bit too much.  It was a fairly strong weapon in MM4 and I believe this should be maintained as much as possible here.  
4.) Think outside the box.  Can other ideas by applied to the main weapon other than what it currently does. (Think about what mods do etc.  Not required, just something to think about)

Lastly, the main thing to be considered is what makes the weapon FUN to use.  What change would you make to it so that you WANT to use the weapon.  Whether it's a specific scenario or in general, every weapon should have a practical use to it.  

Personally, I don't mind the explosion, but perhaps the damage could be tweaked a little bit.  Comparing it to Drill Bomb, the few ideas that spring to mind offhand are
1.) Add a bonus to hitting a player directly.  Maybe make the explosion bigger and do full damage to everyone within range.  Reward direct hits.
2.) Change the miss explosion to be projectile based (Think Freeze Cracker, but short range) So that it's not omni directional.
3.) Increase ammo consumption relative to the other changes applied.

It's a power weapon and it charges, so imo it should hit a little harder than Drill Bomb and Ballade Cracker.

[Bikdark]

I only think the explosion range needs to be shown for the weapon to be better. A lot of the power lies in its ambiguity. On death, spawn a MUCH larger sfx of PShot growing in size where the explosion is. Refer to Muzaru's CBM Bandaid patch for what I mean.

edit: mess has an excellent point for rewarding direct shots. reducing the overall damage + AoE for indirect hits, but increasing dmg + AoE + making AoE have consistent damage for direct hits.

[Russel]

bandaid doesn't have an explosion effect for pharaoh shot what are you talking about

[Bikdark]

nvm im fucking stupid LOL I FORGOT WE HAVENT RELEASED THAT YET

ASK MUZ ABOUT IT LOL

EDIT: OK GO LOOK AT MPBX INSTEAD

[fortegigasgospel]

Have to agree with Bik here, while I'm not one for using Pharaoh Shot and not too often I see it being used that sounds like a great way to handle the weapon (obviously an effect to show the explosion also since it is not obvious it does that). It allows for the weapon to be stronger then the other explosive power weapons as Mess wants since it's full power requires a direct hit while the other two might be easier to hit with by relying on the explosion (at least I tend to do that) while keeping the same amount of damage either way.

[Hallan Parva]

I still think a silent charging 65 damage explosion on a relatively fast charge time is stupid, no matter how you slice it


Hard Knuckle requires a direct hit, as does Noise Crush (which DOES make a charge sound)
Drill Bomb travels slower and is at least a three-hit kill under normal circumstances

[MusashiAA]

I have to agree with Smashbro here, Pharaoh Shot is a silent charge weapon solely because it also was in MM4, its only an advantage that has very little drawback to it. Every charge weapon makes a lot of noise while charging (which I assume is one of its drawbacks), except Tengu Slash, which is a melee weapon, and Pharaoh Shot. Also, didn't we just have a talk about charge weapons that don't force enough drawbacks onto the player for holding down a charge forever?

A silent charge weapon that deals 65 damage at point blank that can still deal explosion damage if missed feels wrong IMO. Pharaoh Shot as it is is a very solid weapon, one that clearly outclasses most other weapons of its same kin, but if we're to keep its full power for design purposes:

-That 3HKO mid charge shot needs to go, too short of a charge time to already get 34-49 damage. You don't even need two full charge shots to kill a player: just finish him off with the mid charge shot.

-That silent charge needs to be awfully reconsidered as part of its design (I've got unused Pharaoh Shot charging and alternate firing SFX if the need ever arises   ).

-And right off the heels of that previous bullet point, the same principle discussed for Atomic Fire charging needs to be considered for this one weapon as well: players can hold the charge forever, with even less penalties to it than Atomic Fire.

-As a suggestion, please consider adding a way to efficiently spam the small Pharaoh Shot projectile.

-And as another suggestion, please add to Pharaoh Shot's ammo bar the same thing Scorch Wheel's has: a flashing ammo bar layered on top of the regular one, that rises up to indicate what level of charge you have. Instead of it slowly rising up like CBM's Pharaoh Man, it should instantly fill midbar when it reaches mid charge point, then fill up completely when it reaches full charge. Out of all the charge weapons, Pharaoh Shot is the most offensive-centered one, and as such this kind of information is critical for the player to know.






EDIT: Oh, and Astro Crush's explosion graphic to the actual hidden explosion or something along those lines, nothing too flashy, nothing too noisy.