MM8BDM v5 - Weapon Tuning (Leaf Shield)

[Gumballtoid]

On that subject it might be cool to have hud indicators of charge levels for every weapon in such a way, but that's for another discussion.

Pharaoh Shot's silent charge is what makes it unique, in my opinion, and definitely sets it apart from the likes of Atomic Fire or any buster upgrade. I think it should be designed around having that unique aspect. For a weapon that charges silently, I think the explosion is unnecessary, particularly because it's ambiguous (that being there's no visual indicator, and it never actually exploded in MM4) and because it steps on the toes of things like Drill Bomb, another exploding power weapon of the same game.

If we're going to talk about rewarding the player for landing direct shots, the reward ought to be dealing damage to begin with. In contrast to Drill Bomb, which is slower but does have the ability to strike several targets at once (and detonate on a whim, mind you), this weapon would be better left for picking off single opponents.

On the subject of an explosion visual, I think it goes back to the identity aspect that Mess was talking about. It should still feel like Pharaoh Shot. It never did explode in MM4, it just kept on going if it killed a weak enemy, oftentimes mowing down hordes of them if they were close enough together -- actually, there's an idea: suppose the projectile continued to travel if it killed its target? If it finishes off a dude, it could keep going and peg the dude behind him.

[MusashiAA]

Plant Barrier never healed you in MM6, Atomic Fire was not aimable in MM2, and so on and so on: certain changes are needed to better accommodate the FPS gameplay or to make the weapon more interesting, which is why the (weak) hidden explosion, while mostly unneeded for its basic functionality, adds a layer to the weapon's usefulness without treading into Drill Bomb's explosive nature.

The subject of identity...is something that shouldn't be taken literally for the purpose of our designing convenience. And besides, MM8BDM's Pharaoh Shot feels like MM4's Pharaoh Shot, because MM4's Pharaoh Shot was just an aimable charge buster with its projectile sticking out before firing, which the 8BDM counterpart already portrays in both look and function. Anything else that is added to the 8BDM counterpart, however small it is, has been an addendum that IMO: a) doesn't strip the weapon of its identity, b) exists to liven up the weapon, and c) exists to better function in a multiplayer FPS plane.

[CutmanMike]

Having it automatically fire after holding it for a second or two seems reasonable.

[Geno]

Also, one thing

If the explosion stays, I'll personally draw graphics for it so that it no longer stays "invisible"

[MusashiAA]

Force shot release is counterproductive for offensive medium range fighting, which is what Pharaoh Shot seems to be most used in, and for charge weapons in general IMO. You want to keep your shot with you for the right time to fire it and deal the direct damage: adding a too short time constrain or any other penalty without something to justify it like Atomic Fire's killer shot, in the exclusive case of Pharaoh Shot, is a bad idea.

If a time limit is used as Pharaoh Shot's charge holding penalty, then maybe a larger span like 6 or 10 seconds should be more fitting to an offensive weapon like it, and for the giant compressed heat ball to dissipate. I wouldn't advise it, though: it feels like an awful idea in execution.

EDIT: For an original explosion graphic, may I suggest taking inspiration from Pharaoh Man's Pharaoh Wave? I imagine Pharaoh Shot's "explosion" to mostly be the result of the shot shortly bursting into a mini heat wave: nothing too flashy, nothing too big, nothing too noisy.

[Geno]

I was mostly intending P.Shot's explosion to look like the ones from those asteroids from MM5

(which i had to rip myself because nobody ripped them before)

Where the projectile visibly gets "torn apart" by the explosion
(I'll also try to make the explosion the size of the actual damaging radius, however big that is)

[MusashiAA]

I was mostly intending P.Shot's explosion to look like the ones from those asteroids from MM5

(which i had to rip myself because nobody ripped them before)

Where the projectile visibly gets "torn apart" by the explosion
(I'll also try to make the explosion the size of the actual damaging radius, however big that is)

That looks ok, might be a bit too big? The explosion radius is not as big as Drill Bomb's, anyways.



















and if it is, it shouldn't be.

[Korby]

Pharaoh Shot's explosion radius has a 128 unit radius. Drill Bomb has a 96 unit radius.
Its damage is also entirely in the explosion, so I wouldn't exactly label it as "weak."

Personally, I like Gumball's idea of making it not explosive and having it pass through slain players. Perhaps its damage could increase as well, because the likelihood of actually hitting another guy with that projectile is very little.
I'm also okay with just reducing the damage slightly and nerfing the radius by a fair amount.

[MusashiAA]

That's not right. The idea of Pharaoh Shot only dealing a lot of damage on direct hits, while keeping a small explosion only if it misses and hits anything but a player should be the way to go. Said explosion should not overpower Drill Bomb's in any way.

If we go the non-explosive way, Gumball's idea is a more logical conclusion: make it pass through killed enemies instead (for whatever that's worth >:^/).

If we go the explosive way, reduce the radius of the explosion, add a small graphic to it, and nerf either mid charge shot to 4HKO and the full charge shot to 60. Any other design choice, like silent charge or no charge shot spam is up to you.

[Gumballtoid]

As part of the identity argument I brought up earlier, I'm not big on the idea of creating new sprites to accommodate the explosion. If the explosion radius is reduced to not be larger than the resident explosive weapon, it most likely won't need them anyway.

That aside, I largely agree with the sentiments above.

[NemZ]

Is there a way to make it rip  but only hit once per target?  
No charge = less damage, small, no rip
Mid charge = full damage, small, no rip
full charge = full damage, large, psedo-rips, and deals damage on contact (but lose the charge in the process.)

As for balancing the silent quick charge and melee option, lose the charge if damaged.

I don't think the explosion is worth keeping.

[BiscuitSlash]

Pharaoh Shot's explosion radius has a 128 unit radius.

What.

Okay seriously, that's too much. I don't mind the idea of an AoE effect for this weapon, however:
-128 radius sounds too high, especially compared to Drill Bomb.
-There's no clear indicator that it explodes. This causes confusion to unaware players when they take damage from a near miss, and when they take damage after blocking the attack with Proto Shield. This is an example of bad game design.

The above needs to be fixed up. I've also never liked how the fully charged shot overshadows the uncharged and mid-charged shot. Not certain on how to go about this. Maybe speed up the less charged shots?

If a time limit is used as Pharaoh Shot's charge holding penalty, then maybe a larger span like 6 or 10 seconds should be more fitting to an offensive weapon like it, and for the giant compressed heat ball to dissipate. I wouldn't advise it, though: it feels like an awful idea in execution.

I actually kinda like the idea of the projectile being weaker if held up for too long. Similar to what the Huntsman did in Team Fortress 2, where if at the ready for too long it looses accuracy and critical hit chance, a fully charged Pharaoh shot could be slightly less powerful (~10 damage less) and lose its explosion effect. Of course, clear indicators would need to be in place. This would still let players hold a fully charged shot, but discourage them from always having it at the ready.

[Bikdark]

Pharaoh Shot's explosion radius has a 128 unit radius.

What.

Okay seriously, that's too much. I don't mind the idea of an AoE effect for this weapon, however:
-128 radius sounds too high, especially compared to Drill Bomb.
-There's no clear indicator that it explodes. This causes confusion to unaware players when they take damage from a near miss, and when they take damage after blocking the attack with Proto Shield. This is an example of bad game design.

The above needs to be fixed up. I've also never liked how the fully charged shot overshadows the uncharged and mid-charged shot. Not certain on how to go about this. Maybe speed up the less charged shots?

128 radius is NOT too high lol idk what you're talking about. I think your opinion of the explosion range will be changed once you start to play with explosion fx on. It's NOT going to be a problem with a couple other fixes in place, and by decreasing the range you're really just making the weapon less fun/unique.

Protoshield won't block explosions -- this is something the player will learn very quickly. It's not bad game design, just a little miscommunicated for the first 10 seconds it happens.

The weapon isn't supposed to be used actively in terms of low/mid charge, nor should the focus of the weapon be divided up like that. There's enough strength in tossing out a mid-charge shot when the opponent is expecting a big charge in .6 seconds, and iirc the small shots already do 12, no?

[Orange juice :l]

Bear in mind a huge amount of PShot's strength comes from jumping and chucking downwards to ensure something hits. Of course, doing something as drastic as gluing the users' feet to the ground while charged wouldn't be a very good idea, but it's something to keep in mind while balancing the weapon. Perhaps consider walls versus floors?

[BiscuitSlash]

Protoshield won't block explosions -- this is something the player will learn very quickly. It's not bad game design, just a little miscommunicated for the first 10 seconds it happens.

It makes sense for the shield to not block explosions. The bad game design that I'm mentioning is the fact that the lack of explosion indicator (no effects or MM4 version exploding) causes confusion for those who try to block the attack.

It's similar to other games where you try to block an attack that looks blockable, only to fail at it. You feel confused, and took damage due to something that doesn't feel like your fault.

Though this issue is probably going to get fixed up anyway at the moment.