[Map Pack] IX-Pack {v1g released} [Jan 3 2015]

[Mr. X]

Ok, I've never seen anything THAT messed up with a random wall in software or OpenGL.  Also, if anything I brought it off-topic, so my bad Ivory.

[Tesseractal]

Hoping my feedback's worth something, I'm going to rank the v2 Ivory maps in order of preference, starting with the top. I'll include things I liked/didn't like, and then afterwards I'll hit up the new MMCTF08 with some comments.

#1: IDM10

Easily my favorite of the bunch. Weapon choice/placement is excellent, the textures are good and I could totally pass this for an official Napalm Man stage. Battling is a bit focused toward the teleporter room and the room it teleports to - the "open brown" area, and that's not too bad. This is in part because the blue hallways are slightly tricky to navigate through - they feel narrow and slightly confusing, and I've sometimes had trouble remembering which hallway I'm in.  (remember this is only a minor problem) The big gap next to the teleporter also feels "empty", like it could contain something besides an open pit. You really only go into the pit by missing a Charge Kick; it's not really a threat on its own. Maybe a bridge or something? That's really more of a discretion call(as I said, it's not bad how it is now). The teleporter split is also *very nice*- I don't know how it works, but it seems to prevent telefrags(I've never seen one here, which is good) and dampen telecamping. In fact the only thing that really bothers me is the "dead end" rooms, although I suppose that can't be avoided(without a teleporter, really).

#3: IDM09

Another map that I feel is really well-rounded. The difference in the water's lethality(one kills, one's open) has confused a few people, but I'm fine with it and feel that's their problem. =P The underwater area is my only concern - like the big hole in IDM10, it's really naked, and so entering that area loses interest and it becomes a "passing area" which I'm not too fond of it. Or a hiding area, which is equally lame. It could be spiced up with a weapon, some energy drops, ice on the floor(this would be neat imo), something that can bring in focus. Right now the focus is in the "Cossack Room" but that's fine as it is. Weapon choices are also great here, the only thing to me being that Crystal Eye, Freeze Cracker, and Ring Boomerang(to a lesser extent) has a tinge of redundancy. The e-tank/mtank placement also confuses me- as it is , the mtank is easier to get. Going after the etank makes you a sitting duck for enemy fire; the mtank is a quick escape although I LIKE that corridor (it seems like a nod to Mess's infamous chimney, intentional or not). Personally I think the mtank could go, no problem, but it's a discretion thing.

Also, you can do better with the music. LOTS of good ice-themes out there. Go for it.

#2: IDM02
Another map that's pretty balanced and imo passes as a "GB Elec Man map". I like this map a lot, don't let 3rd place fool you. It's very fluid, the size feels right for even a moderate size DM,  weapon choice is great/weapons placed well. Saku's got a nice spot, so does Rain Flush, and some weapon combos that are original (like Rain + Cutter + Stone + Saku + Star!). The "Search Snake" pit (near Rush Coil) is really deep down and while it's nice for Search Snakes, it makes getting out of the area tricky. And as a recurring theme, being difficult to navigate takes focus away from the area, which you may or may not want. You might want that area being a pit to slow down traffic, but I'm a bit impatient as far as things like that go(wait until he with map 10). Quick Boomerang's placement also feels funny - it's a bit easy to get "gimped" (or stopped in midjump and die, SSB-style) for what's only a moderate power weapon in this setting. I'm not real sure what to do with it, though. But imo design-wise this map actually beats out the others. In fact, screw it- I'm bumping this map up to #2 while writing it because I like it that much. =)

#4: IDM07

This map is pretty fluid. Main problem: Leaving the underwater/knight crush area is very difficult. it needs two slow, underwater jumps to get on the pillar, then out of the water, and then up stairs. Something could remedy this. The knight crush nerf also really hurts this map, because as great as Triple Blade is, it turns battles incredibly one-sided. You spawn and someone has it; you're done even if you have some good footwork. (I am aware you did not code this weapon, and it's not a bad weapon either, it just lacks real counters here) The other weapons have their good points, but in the face of Triple Blade it's a bit of wasted effort sometimes in terms of raw damaging power. The Freeze Cracker is kind of... random in this setting, but I don't have any better suggestions at the moment.

-Ah, stairs added. Well, this map's got one major issue fixed. Thumbs up to that choice.

#5: IDM05

It has potential! This infamous map is called "trollish" and the reason is obvious: it trolls you a lot, and you can see self-deaths rackup like on WaveMan's stage in the wrong hands. This does not bother me. Most of them can be avoided with some good reason. I like weapon placements here, so here's my problem: 1) The quicklasers in Spark Shot room. They're bloody fast, and I've NEVER crossed them. 2) The darkness room. It's overkill. What do those two things do? Since I'm inept at crossing them, they turn into deadends and now you have a map that's split in two places, which becomes bothersome. The quicklasers you don't have a whole lot of flexibility, but the darkness could be tampered (so it's not as frequent? or not there? the death pit is menacing enough) so it doesn't feel like the map is jammed. But imo weapons/player concentrations spread real well. I still enjoy being the only one to get Screw Crushers.

In the eddie room: (image below) incase image fails: It's possible to stand on the spike pit on the VERY EDGE without dying. Not sure if intended.

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http://img607.imageshack.us/i/ipackbug.png/

edit: So it's gonna get softened, huh? Not a bad move at all. It could be a little more user-friendly.

#6: IDM01
This map grew on me at first. The size is great for smaller matches and it's fairly fluid, with not one area taking too much focus(you'll see action concentrate outside the Knight Crush area but that's fine). The only problem: weapon choice here is a bit wonky. Weapons like Gemini, Charge, Snakes, & Drill become totally overshadowed. You've got SuperArm, Crush, and Spears competing for massive damage output but then leaf shield comes in, and you're stuck. The only piercing weapon is Centaur Flash and Proto. Proto's a bit of a nightmare to get to, as I personally hate "dead ends". So like in Centaur Man, it becomes a bit of contest to stockpile W-tanks and go on a Centaur rage to kill leafshielders. It's not too bad but it hurts because the map isn't very "deep" and so the power weapons are just floating around. Also the Tango Rush at the end of the waterfall- is that supposed to be accessible via crouching? I've never really understood it.

#7: IDM06

Your "large map penchant" is beginning to show a little bit. It's fairly easy to get around, I disagree with some of the "one-way" areas (mainly conveyor belts) but they're forgivable, you don't really get lost, I sometimes feel it takes forever to get a weapon (weapon set's good though, and helps this map a lot). Magnet Missile has a deathpit next to it (I assume is intentional). When falling into the lava, it reads "ROC'S CREATION KILLED HIMSELF" instead of the regular "... mutated" message. What can help other than just shrinking it? Make more pathways. I hate the fences, personally. Try running through this map with NOCLIP - it's interesting, you can connect through a lot of the rooms that are normally blocked off by a fence/wall. Say the magnet missile room - were it not for the fence, (passable via noclip) you could walk along it and pop above the health spawn in different rooms. It would make it easier to find people and get around a bit. The size is what hurts this map the most, really.

#8: IDM03

Now I'm checking the V3 status before I finish this, so... Rushjet gone is definitely good. I don't like the map because it's MORE deathprone than IDM05, and that's saying a lot. Even if you farm Beats. It's really kinda menacing with different fans, top spin, wind storm, amd jumps in midair everywhere over death pits. There's not a lot I can do to help this map... The unfriendliness of the whole thing just bugs me. You'll have to look elsewhere for this one.

#9: IDM08

Yup, v1d Gravity Hold saves this from being dead last! I'm not too concerned with the inner area, though, although v1 version was borderline bland. The "mountainous" area is a disaster. In this area, if gravity triggers in mid-air, I cannot fly high enough with Beat to survive, so the whole thing becomes pointless. New Ghold probably makes this area still threatening, although surely not nearly as much as the v1c. Also because of the frequency in gravity switching, it's very easy to become stuck. I *hate* dead ends, and being stuck is the equivalent of that. Then you throw in Dive Missiles and it's just plain frustating. I think the inside of the map alone would be just fine as a stage(I'm sure you don't, of course =p) due it's size already. Something about changing the gravity fluxes, the massive heights between the pits, anything to make it less tedious to get through. Unless that was the point. But really the whole outside area is like if you combined Gyro Man's and Gravity Man's stages, and those were very death prone. Both of them.

#10: IDM04

It's too freaking large. But not only that: Everything in this map is designed to help someone stall death. That aggravates me to no end. This is only of the maps that I loathe. You have all 3 barrier weapons, teleporters, massive water jumps/water heights, WAVERUNNERS(which reek of a gimmick feel, because the top area is sparse) and rush. All of them stall death somehow, and that's not really how you make a fluid match. Even cramming in 50 players would not really solve the problem. I know it's getting shrunk down, and that's good, but water stages are slow and 3 barriers are slow and waverunners are fast, but make things slow. My solution: Add top spins/igmetalblades/star crash/atomic fires to speed it up. When Plant Barrier and the like come into the scene, a oneshot weapon is desparately needed to put in check. That's my two cents for this map. I feel I have more input with the maps I like more, but that's sorta because these last three maps I avoid quite a bit. >.>

now for MMCTF08:

It's better. Nice work. Top Spin, Wind Storm, and Rushjet- I love them, but they promoted extreeeeeeeme spawnkilling (I prompted a ragequit from a Cutstuff staff in v1c, olo). I bring up "fluidity" as an example of what to do in other maps. You know how you can jump down from Rolling Cutter/etank spawn in the left hallway to get Pharoah Shot? That's freaking awesome. I like that over the old map infinitely, espcially because in CTF you need to outmanuver the non-basecampers(the "hunters") and Rush Coil is great in a spot like that. The new ballade Cracker spawn: It's good, BUT: The small window there is large enough to crouch through, but you have an invisible wall there. Hiffe and I crossed it with noclip, and imo connecting the old Wind Storm/Teleport area to the Ballade Cracker spawns would be great and add some more diversity to the map. You could also return the teleporter there as well, or make it accessible without crouch('cause DW doesn't do crouching). OR! remove the invisible wall over that fence. That way, by using Rush in the water(a la the old Rushjet jump) you could reach it. Then you could... put Rushjet there add stuff. The teleporter, I dunno. I think it's an interesting possibilty. Gemini Laser and the bridge expansions are greatly appreciated. You need to know what you did right, and you did the changes right. Still my favorite CTF map (CTF05 also got a lot better as well).

tl;dr: no you dun get one It's a bit wall-texty, but I figure you'd want some detailed reaction to the maps. The first seven maps I enjoy playing on and I await the next release.

[Ivory]

Thank you Ice-IX. This is the type of feedback I love getting from the community. Full of details about each individual map. Comments on why you like it, what doesn't work and suggestions to improve them. It's helps us mapmakers a lot. I thank you for that. Please keep up the good evaluation. You've raised a lot of good points.

Anyways, to comment on some of stuff you've mentioned.

#1: IDM10
-The cavern section was intended to be a narrow. Since this is large a base inside a cave. I will look into making the path around more obvious though.

#3: IDM09
-This map received a layout change for v3. That entire lower area with the boat has been cut out and replaced with a new design that keeps the action in the middle. Also the water areas are more interesting now. Here have two screen shots.

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#2: IDM02
- Yeah, the snake pit will be less deep for v3. I also swapped Quick Boomerang for Rolling Cutter in the upper half.

#4: IDM07
-Yeah, I'll look at the weapon placements there.
-As for freeze cracker, I liked it. I found dust crusher was far too slow in that level.

#5: IDM05
-It's much more user friendly now(least I hope so. It's hard to die now, that's fore sure.)

#6: IDM01
-Sure. I can go look at the weapon's there. It's just this map has been around for so long and all my feed back was "this map is awesome" that I never thought the weaponry was a problem.

#7: IDM06
-V3 is getting a size reduction and adding more ways around. It should flow better.
- As for the killing message. I have no idea, for that one map, it's not playing the right message.

#8: IDM03
- This map is in a lot of trouble. V1D really made the trollnado... stick out. I did my best. Making gyro fans as painless as possible isn't the most easy task.

#9: IDM08
-Like I said, the basement is completely different. It's one giant platform with some height differences. It's much more smaller too.

#10: IDM04
-I think I may as well redo the whole entire map and make it completely different. I've shrunken the bottom size, but it's still a mess.

MMCTF08:
-I'll go look into it. However I made it more simpler to navigate because that was one of the larger criticisms.

Again thank you for the input, this is the type of criticism I love to see.

[Myroc]

About IDM08, I really think that the original gravity "mountain" area and the top area with gemini/flash textures should be split up into two completely separate maps. It just feels too damn large. I liked both areas (especially the gravity-changing mountain one) but together it's just way too much.

[Ivory]

I was considering that, however I opted for one last shot at making it work by making a small underground area(It's less then half the size of the top half). If it fails again, then a v4 would remove the basement all together and keep the top half.

I'm getting a bit tired of Gravity Core. Considering I have 4 different complete versions of IDM08 at this point in storage. Each change is radically different from the last. If you think the current one has issues, it's infinitely better then my earlier attempts.

Anyways thank you for the suggestion.

[Hallan Parva]

I don't know why everyone hates that one factory stage with the lava/conveyors/crushers. Personally, it was my favorite map in the entire pack, and assuming there's at least six players on the map, it actually isn't that large. A lot of my DM friends (and Yellow Devil last time I checked) also love this map. Please don't change it that much, I will be disappointed!

Maybe you could make an "IDM11" with the same factory theme, but it's smaller/changed around for those people who apparently can't stand it. And keep Screw Crusher in it

[Ivory]

Actually, funny you mention an idm11. I'm no longer interested in making an expansion pack anymore, due to new projects I want to devote my time and effort into. After I'm done with my hellish final 2 weeks of college, I was going to work on getting a V3 to bump map quality out. Especially the 3 main problematic map(IDM04,05,08). Since I'm no longer doing an expansion, I'll be including the two maps I've already had in progress for them into V3 for an 11 and 12. I always wanted to end my map pack with an awesome wily base map.

As for changing the factory map. It will be similar with the same feelings and flow. Just will be a bit smaller and more ways of getting around. I know I can't please everyone, however I myself find the map to be too large and not enough ways to get around. When I'm modding, I consider myself the first customer I want to please. If I can't love my own map pack, why am I bothering with it?

[Ivory]

Small Update.

IDM03 - Skyway has been restructured. It should be much better now. Also all the giant heads are out of bounds now. No more beat whistling to them. There is also no Rush Jet on this stage. I also added Quick Boomerang to the weapon roster.

So as of this post, all 10 original DM maps have been fixed up. The only things left to do is IDM14 and IDM15. Then I have a few little tweaks to do here and there. Some beta testing, fix up any issues that comes forth. If anything serious came up that requires retesting, then retesting will happen. Then release! Whoo!

IDM03 - Sky Way(Layout Changes)

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[Alucard]

As I know you are about to update your pack, I won't hound you to put this in V3...Maybe V4, but what I was thinking was an 8-bit version Hot Air Skyway's theme (from Crash Team Racing. Obscure games FTW) as sorta an Easter Egg song in Sky Way? (Forgive me if I asked this in the past, I have a suckish memory...)

Anyway, here's the song: (ever so conveniently, I found the 8-bit version!)

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[Blaze Yeager]

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Yarr that be GSXCC!

NOT 8-bit!

[Alucard]

It's close enough...Not to mention it is the only version on YouTube...Nope, not even a Famitracker video.

[Mr. X]

NO.  GXSCC is NOT good enough.  That thing pisses me off to no end.

[Ivory]

Alucard, I'm not putting in cameo songs. I don't care for Crash Bandicoot racing and I don't even recall ever saying I was asking for suggestions like this. If you have suggestions for the maps themselves, then by all means, tell me what's bothering you or what would make a map work better. None the less being asked to add in cameo songs for a game I don't have a care in the world for. I'm more likely to put in an 8-bit remix of the Egyptian World from The Lost Vikings then Crash Banidcoot racing.

All I'm doing is updating my thread with the latest V3 news and showing off some of the new changes.

Thank you for understanding.
also I agree with Mr X.

[SmashTheEchidna]

While we're on the subject of songs, I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned or not, but I personally think Sand Canyon should have the IBOSMUS2 song for when someone is winning in deathmatch, rather than the one that currently plays. For a place with a song as upbeat as Sand Canyon, It really changes the mood when you hear that depressing song kick in.
Speaking of which, Sand canyon's song is also a bit too loud in comparison to all the other songs.

[Mr. X]

I believe Ivory said xe fixed the volume issue in Sand Canyon.