The Hunter: My thoughts on him in V2B5

[CarThief]

Hmm... Pretty much speaking from experience, i do say Jitter charges around alot for alot of reasons, not just one charge means its gonna kill a human, or is even meant to do so. You might want to use it to get around faster, it does help.

Often you end up missing, or they magically survive, or you just go past them. Hmm... I wouldnt mind an explanation on why 3-5 or so charges before the limit kicks in would still be considered overpowered.
As long as the cooldown on the limit triggering and when it hits the limit is fairly long (altrough not too long on the first one, perhaps).

I dont think Jitterskull would be actually usefull if the system was just like this:

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Lets say, he has 4 bites before cooldown kicks in, and it stays like that untill limit is reached. For whatever reason, he bites 3 times, he spots a human, he tries to bite it, and fails. Then what? He tries again, and it doesnt work, as much as he had the oppertunity or maybe had to bite to get away, he cant do anything but move, and might get hit while running, if unlucky.

I would find the above system rather annoying to actually use. But i dont see what is wrong with the original idea, is the limit too large? Is even 3 bites perhaps too large?
Hmm... Or was something else "insane"? I do wonder, do you have any idea's for Jitterskull, perhaps?

Oh, and with powerhouses i meant Jitter and Hunter, Marine would be really lucky to make quick work of an Sjas (in about the speed of an instant kill). And i mean with targets 100 hp and higher.

[Mobius]

Hmm... Pretty much speaking from experience, i do say Jitter charges around alot for alot of reasons, not just one charge means its gonna kill a human, or is even meant to do so. You might want to use it to get around faster, it does help.

That's true for the more experienced jitter players or maybe ONE jitter or two in a team where they don't feel comfortable about spamming.

Often you end up missing, or they magically survive, or you just go past them. Hmm...

My matador statement hit it on the mark.

I wouldnt mind an explanation on why 3-5 or so charges before the limit kicks in would still be considered overpowered.

Be a human and fight some of the maps for Gvh. Make sure it's a 12 or more person game and if you see a jitter-fest, you'll know why.

Imagine dodging ONE chump in close quarter to deal with five others from different and random angles. Imagine being stunned by the first but you can't move fast enough to dodge the second. Now picture this happening in a map with buildings or structures evading your aim or an enclosed environment. Now picture a group of 2 accompanying ghouls to feast on you, and they were all jitters that charged at you seconds ago and missed.

I would find the above system rather annoying to actually use.

Some of us would see it as a curse still. One chump then a small cooldown, no chump limit. Set the limit to 1, cooldown, then they can chump again. This forces people to stop spamming and think about their attacks more preciously or wisely. Haha. Those last two words is a premium on skulltag.

At further thought, with their radius reduce and being a projectile in place -- they can use a shorter cooldown.

But i dont see what is wrong with the original idea, is the limit too large? Is even 3 bites perhaps too large?
Hmm... Or was something else "insane"? I do wonder, do you have any idea's for Jitterskull, perhaps?

One limit chump cooldown and extensively test it to determine how many seconds is needed to balance it out. If the jitter can move during the cooldown then such a cooldown should be a bit longer than before because of Jitter's evasiveness. I am not subscribing minutes, a few several seconds shall suffice for humans to actually get away and worry about other ghouls as Jitters tend to be top priority over Sjas (as it should be, I guess).

Oh, and with powerhouses i meant Jitter and Hunter, Marine would be really lucky to make quick work of an Sjas (in about the speed of an instant kill). And i mean with targets 100 hp and higher.

I am going to just speak from experience here.

Hunters are less threatening now more than ever. As a Sjas player, I target the hitscans over Hunters any day. Hunters use situational weapons and now firearrows need a little more accuracy (but needs a little less power in that radius). With the absence of a marine, I will target the Cyborg next because of plasma. I only go for Hunters when they are open for an attack and I can get away with it. I am not downplaying them any, but they aren't that powerful and seldom good players make use of them effectively.

Edit*

I dont think Jitterskull would be actually usefull if the system was just like this: Lets say, he has 4 bites before cooldown kicks in, and it stays like that untill limit is reached. For whatever reason, he bites 3 times, he spots a human, he tries to bite it, and fails. Then what? He tries again, and it doesnt work, as much as he had the oppertunity or maybe had to bite to get away, he cant do anything but move, and might get hit while running, if unlucky.

Did he make successful kills with those chumps? Did he squander them on spamming or evading? Jitters were suppose to be a skill class. The idea is to NOT waste your chances, but nowadays it seems as though it doesn't matter. I think that is the debate here.

^ Had to add that part to the last part of my post. Somehow when you added the spoiler tags, it meshed the quote tags even when the spoilers were removed.

[CarThief]

Hmm... A longer limit after charging once... I could say that's possibily a bit much, but no guarantees without tests, i guess. (And rather harsh along with being a sitting suck after attacking...)

Hmm... Being utterly destroyed when surrounded by ghouls is kinda... Common, yet also, quite natural. It doesnt really matter if they're all Jitterskulls or Sjas for that matter, anything really. The same would happen if there was Sjas coming at you on every direction you try to escape in.

I guess this whole "jitterrape" nerfing is making Jitterskull too useless in small battles, seriously. Not all battles are with 10/12 or so people. In such cases, any bad turn you might run into a ghoul! Not specifically Jitterskull, either. Humans never did well when teams where equal yet they both where on high numbers, depending on the map, and the events that happened, either team is going to utterly destroy the other.

Hmm... Well in short, he's plain unlucky or inaccurate at times, he needs those extra attacks. Every other ghoul has little waiting time before their attacks are reused too. Many say Sjas these days are quite powerfull, even if a horde of Sjas rapes them, i never hear complaining about them, what makes Jitterskull so special?
Well, short on time here, so i'll probaly be back tomorrow...

EDIT: Not that short, it seems, but perhaps i wont reply this night.
I would agree with Ivory, his attacks are multifunctional, escape, move faster, or plain attack. He needs to be able to do more the one. Else he's probaly rubbish, or tough to use kind of rubbish. Meh, neither will do very well.

Oh, making edits only for Jitterrape is pointless. Then a Sjasrape will occur. Then a Chokerape. Perhaps a Creeperrape... The only thing is that his attack can reach farther then other ghoul's, but edit him only to stop Jitterrape and you'll just end up bumping into a Sjasrape.
Jitterrape is all people think about these days... Just shoot and run!
Minor edit again: I'm crap at explaining why about things compared to Ivory. It seems. Just hope Jitter wont end up being useless.

[Ivory]

As a Jitterskull (and practically every Ghoul, mainly Choke) user, a one chomp limit would be horrible. I rely heavily on using a second attack to escape after an attack. Since my Jittering tactics are the same as my tactics with Choke and Sjas. Roam about, dodge, attack when I get an opening, and then run away and repeat. Unless I know I can make the kill, I make an escape. Jitterskulls attack is faster then starting to move again. So I use that to dodge behind something, or up an edge or something so I can start moving normally.
And for the record, due to Jitterspam, I'm never Jitterskull with more then one other Jitter (or two, all depends on the team sizes).

[Mobius]

The half second between a bite and dodging? Yeah. I know about that. I just went on Gvh, solo play, to see the difference. I think that the range of a chomp is greater than normal movement, and that split second is crucial.

I suppose reducing the stop after a chomp by half a second to compensate the cooldown is good enough.

[CutmanMike]

I find that stop after a chomp the best way to deal with Jitterskulls, I won't touch that. If you're gonna bite you better make it count  

[CarThief]

Well, i doubt any suggestions in this topic are going to be an guarantee in the next beta. Perhaps just leave him be as he is then? After all Jitterrape is no different from a Sjasrape.
And in an average battle he's just a powerfull attacker with an kinda annoying weakness.

And how good he plays depends quite much on the map. He sucks in really large open area's, nor can he safely follow a human as hitting targets on the ground is quite easy, when it comes to looping paths. Just make use of the map! Jitterskulls do it, i dont see humans using an fairly Jitterskullproof enviroment if there is any. Not frequently, that is.

Besides the Jitterrape, there seems to be a lack of GVH servers around lately. One server had the flag that weapons drop upon death on, and well... That kinda made the gameplay go to hell. :P

[Frits]

One server had the flag that weapons drop upon death on, and well... That kinda made the gameplay go to hell. :P

Makes ghouls pick up human weapons?

[CarThief]

Yeah, as well as humans pick up ghoul weapons. While it was funny to watch a group of marines get raped by a creeper with a shotgun and once by one with a cyborg arm, it didnt do well for gameplay. :P

As well as that poor creeper that got raped by the hunter with the jitterskullweapon. Hehe... Its probaly still up, perhaps.
That Omega Sector Ghouls vs Humans server from Kazakhstan.

[CutmanMike]

Okay I gave the Hunter a lightning bolt which fires from the sky exactly where you're standing. Takes a while to reach the floor depending on how high the ceiling is. Most effective against Sjas.

[White]

That sounds kick-ass.

[CarThief]

That isnt really... Uhh, specific. I mean, how much damage does it inflict? Is it an area effect like fire arrows? How long is its cooldown and whatnot?

And i'm curious of all the possibilities why lightning raining from the sky? Oh well, as long as its not gonna be the new ice arrows or raping fire arrows.
Altrough i guess many humans are having a hard time against some particular Sjas, if used effeciently, they're fast and quick killers. Even faster then me. :P
How effective would this be against other ghouls, then?

[CutmanMike]

It's least effective against the Creeper because he's so small and won't be "in" the lightning as much as the taller ghouls. It will barely harm Jitterskull because of his erratic movement. Choke and FrostBite will suffer from it a bit less than Sjas I guess. I've made it a few tics faster than the teleport was.

[Xorpedo]

The hunter's magic attacks are kinda OK now, but I think that the normal arrows make a litle bit too much damage.

[ThaMarine]

I think that the normal arrows make a litle bit too much damage.

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Did you just say that normal arrow are overpowered? It has the cons of all other arrows: the damage of a single ice arrow, the speed of the fire arrow and the accuracy of the lightning arrow. We can only run fast with it.