The balance of GvH in my point of view

[Zocker]

Hi, I'm a GvH for some some months and I really enjoy it, but I think that there are now many balance issues in favor of the human side.

Ghostbuster: He’s ok, his ghost traps are very dangerous and the proton cannon is charging very fast too, all in one is he ok.

Marine: It’s good that you boost him, but now their shotgun is too strong, in melee it can kill almost every ghoul, the machinegun and the pistols are ok. I think grenades also have a bit too high damage radius.

Archer: A very evil comrade, if you can control him, all in one he’s ok, but you should make a mana limit for all his magic attacks,so they can’t spam around with fire-magic and freezing-arrows.

Cyborg: Sure the plasma is slow, but because of the fact that ghouls normally attack in melee, they are hitting so or so (if there’s no noob playing)... I would say let him the power, but decrease his ammo and a bit of his RoFs.

Ghouls:

Sjas: Sometimes very hard to handle, because of his attack delay, but not overpowered. Only reflect isn’t very useful against good players.

Choke: Well, I only play seldom with it, but I think that he could need a little “boost”, how about slow HP-regeneration, if he stands still? Also I would add a little splash radius for the bloodball, but with only 50% of the damage.

Creeper: Currently it’s the weakest ghoul in my sight. Sure on some maps he has some advantages, but the most annoying thing is the time it needs to start his attack.

Jitterskull: The most complained ghoul ever, while n00bs say they are OP, pros just rip them off, because of their slowness. In previous versions I liked it very much, because of his “teleport” function, but now he’s just unplayable.
If you attack humans, they mostly got pushed back and afterwards you receive a nice little arrow rain, plasma/machinegun barrage (whatever) and can’t do anything about it because you are stunned, after it attacks. But also while attacking you are very woundable because you can’t evade.
And on big maps humans just run away and shoot you from distance.
Please stop making them weaker, Jitterskulls is only as strong, as the skill of its player is, but most players just want to make them weaker to earn easier frags.

But at least it has an epic taunt xD

And to all Jitter basher: Before complaining about Jitter play as it oneself and you will see what I mean!

That’s my point of few.

[TERRORsphere]

Marine: It’s good that you boost him, but now their shotgun is too strong, in melee it can kill almost every ghoul, the machinegun and the pistols are ok. I think grenades also have a bit too high damage radius.

Marine, he's too slow but has too many grenades, I'll say 6 is a good number of grenades.

Hunter: A very evil comrade, if you can control him, all in one he’s ok, but you should make a mana limit for all his magic attacks,so they can’t spam around with fire-magic and freezing-arrows.

I disagree. A good archer never spams and uses all type of arrow. Normal for 1 on 1 with a choke. Fire on sjas med-range and good creepers. Ice on jitters and noob creepers at short range. Lightning for long range and chokes charging their blood ball.

Cyborg: Sure the plasma is slow, but because of the fact that ghouls normally attack in melee, they are hitting so or so (if there’s no noob playing)... I would say let him the power, but decrease his ammo and a bit of his RoFs.

No, no. Just no! Do NOT decrease his ammo. His ammo is fine. I fought a decent jitter with 100 ammo. I ended up with 17. That's fine. His rate of fire is perfect. You have to aim with it and spam with style.
Ghouls:

Sjas: Sometimes very hard to handle, because of his attack delay, but not overpowered. Only reflect isn’t very useful against good players.

Sjas can dodge in the Z direction as well as the X Y directions. Sjas is fine.

Choke: Well, I only play seldom with it, but I think that he could need a little “boost”, how about slow HP-regeneration, if he stands still? Also I would add a little splash radius for the bloodball, but with only 50% of the damage.

I agree with the health-regen. And the bloodball already has splash damage.

Creeper: Currently it’s the weakest ghoul in my sight. Sure on some maps he has some advantages, but the most annoying thing is the time it needs to start his attack.

The creeper is the best ghoul at surviving. He is the strongest. He can go a decent speed with sr50 and bunny-hopping. He can stop enemy's in their tracks and extend the time of them stopping with another creeperball (I am great at hitting with creeper balls ).

Jitterskull: The most complained ghoul ever, while n00bs say they are OP, pros just rip them off, because of their slowness. In previous versions I liked it very much, because of his “teleport” function, but now he’s just unplayable.
If you attack humans, they mostly got pushed back and afterwards you receive a nice little arrow rain, plasma/machinegun barrage (whatever) and can’t do anything about it because you are stunned, after it attacks. But also while attacking you are very woundable because you can’t evade.
And on big maps humans just run away and shoot you from distance.
Please stop making them weaker, Jitterskulls is only as strong, as the skill of its player is, but most players just want to make them weaker to earn easier frags.

Camping behind walls = survival, teamwork = rape. That's how jitterskull is good.
I recently lost interest in frags. It's about teamwork and assholes stealing my kills when I have 7hp as creeper.

[Mobius]

So many wrong things I see, I don't feel like using quote tags to address them all.. but I am going to.

Ghostbuster: He’s ok, his ghost traps are very dangerous and the proton cannon is charging very fast too, all in one is he ok.

He's also situational. Ghost Busters are ONLY good in certain maps.

Marine: It’s good that you boost him, but now their shotgun is too strong, in melee it can kill almost every ghoul, the machinegun and the pistols are ok. I think grenades also have a bit too high damage radius.

I don't know what everyone has been talking about. I haven't noticed a single thing about the shotgun playing as a marine most of the time. It's like everyone saying he got buffered, but where? Really? I haven't noticed a single thing about it. It's funny, because now it looks as though his shotgun got more spread now when I started playing Opengl.

His grenades are fine. It keeps creepers from getting bold now, and you could now make an anti-meta sjas game involving potato throwing in a hallway viable.

Archer: A very evil comrade, if you can control him, all in one he’s ok, but you should make a mana limit for all his magic attacks,so they can’t spam around with fire-magic and freezing-arrows.

I swear, where does everyone get these from? Fire magic isn't that buff and Ice Arrows is fine. Even the teleport is fine.

Cyborg: Sure the plasma is slow, but because of the fact that ghouls normally attack in melee, they are hitting so or so (if there’s no noob playing)... I would say let him the power, but decrease his ammo and a bit of his RoFs.

You're a ghoul player. Since you do not play both, I can say where you'd pick up this sort of misinformation. Cyborgs are more potent than ever with their jetpack. No longer are they, "camp here and fire," kind of class. Now ghouls have to work harder in cornering a flying cyborg that doesn't want to stand still. This also gives him even MORE of a chance to fight off Sjas.

Sjas: Sometimes very hard to handle, because of his attack delay, but not overpowered. Only reflect isn’t very useful against good players.

Doomthroughdoom already tackled this, but I wanna throw in my own two cents.

Sjas have a little bit of an absurd radius. They may be the most exposed compared to a lot of other ghouls, but he's absolutely fine. He isn't hard to control at all.

Choke: Well, I only play seldom with it, but I think that he could need a little “boost”, how about slow HP-regeneration, if he stands still? Also I would add a little splash radius for the bloodball, but with only 50% of the damage.

Standing still? You want to make Chokes broken? No. I believe regain is great if he makes successful bites. So if the damage he deals in a bite is, less say by chance, 20? He gets 20 of his health back (if he was below his maximum).

Just to prevent choke camp. They have 120 health.

Creeper: Currently it’s the weakest ghoul in my sight. Sure on some maps he has some advantages, but the most annoying thing is the time it needs to start his attack.

In what universe do you live in?

Jitterskull: The most complained ghoul ever, while n00bs say they are OP, pros just rip them off, because of their slowness. In previous versions I liked it very much, because of his “teleport” function, but now he’s just unplayable.

Again, what world do you live in? Don't answer that, I don't want to know.

Besides DoomthroughDoom's comment, I have a few to add.

Jitter-spam + Certain maps + most maps + inbalanced teams + chomp spam + teleport + radius + health = rape

Unplayable? Sure, if you aren't trying to win easily.

If you attack humans, they sometimes get pushed back

Fixed

and afterwards you receive a nice little arrow rain,

Well if you stay there, sure.

plasma/machinegun barrage (whatever) and can’t do anything about it because you are stunned, after it attacks.

IT'S THE ONLY WAY to get a guaranteed hit on a Jitter. As I have said in another thread involving Jitters, "You have to play like a matador." A Jitter's chomp is very frightening, powerful, fast, and have a lot of range. With all the abilities combined of a Jitter, why would you want them to make attacks without penalty?

But also while attacking you are very woundable because you can’t evade.

MOST players just attack again to avoid the split second paralysis. This makes jitters EXCEPTIONALLY more dangerous than just them moving away normally.

You ever been in a jitterape, son? You'd come out looking beautiful after you rage.

And on big maps humans just run away and shoot you from distance.

I hope you're joking. I sincerely hope you're just trolling right there.

In the off chance that you aren't -- I doubt it, I will answer you. You see. A human player, the guy that isn't a jitter, doesn't have enough health. So in order to, you know, stand a chance with his range weapons, because all ghouls are close quarter efficient, have to survive by, you know, running away. No one wants to stand still and die. So like, they need to kind of run. I mean, what would you like them to do? Jitters, have like, a lot of health and attack power. In a few seconds, a gang of ghouls could, like, destroy a human team standing still. It's only a Team Last Man Standing and all. It isn't like the human team runs to, well, live and stuff, right? They need to stand still because it will only help the enemy team, fighting the ghouls, win and stuff.

Please stop making them weaker, Jitterskulls is only as strong, as the skill of its player is, but most players just want to make them weaker to earn easier frags.

No.

But at least it has an epic taunt xD

And to all Jitter basher: Before complaining about Jitter play as it oneself and you will see what I mean!

No one intentionally post something like this. You're in a forum filled with players that play both classes equally.

Really? You're joking right?

[Wartorn]

No one intentionally post something like this. You're in a forum filled with players that play both classes equally.

We do?

[Mobius]

Oh, Wartorn. I love you like a homosexual lover can love another homosexual lover.. but you, by far, are the main disheartening factor of this forum

[Wartorn]

Oh, Wartorn. I love you like a homosexual lover can love another homosexual lover.. but you, by far, are the main disheartening factor of this forum

Sowwy

[White]

YOU FORGOT ME.

OnTopic : Yea... No.

[Frits]

Oh Noes, it's a second carthief !

Oh, Wartorn. I love you like a homosexual lover can love another homosexual lover.. but you, by far, are the main disheartening factor of this forum

lol, somebody's got to do the dirty job

[CutmanMike]

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree with the Marine thing, why does everyone think I've buffed his shotgun? It hasn't changed for ages now, only the machine gun and grenades have been buffed.

[CarThief]

Hmm... People do mention the shotgun alot being stronger. But i've checked the code with the previous version, and there doesnt seem to be any changes to the shotgun itself.

And so far for Jitterskull, attack wise, he's fine, dangerous, but with a weakness. Doesnt need an nerf on his own, really. But since alot of people seem to have an traumatic experience with Jitterrape ( :twisted: ) well... I'll repeat the suggestion i made in the comments on the site: Just reduce the HP of all Jitterskulls more and more depending on how many are in-game, if possible. Any nerfs on his attack would make him useless in battles with small teams.

With Hunter, its quite simple, his power comes without cost, or much of an limit, either. He's like a Jitterskull without the pausing moment after he attacked. He only needs a limitation of sorts to his power. Mana would be a good idea, that would restore over time, giving the normal arrows more use, too. That would make up for the power of having all-rounder abilities, and instant kills not to mention running speed like a God.
Of course, the stronger the attack, the more mana it uses (*points at ice arrows*).
I have pretty much the same suggestions in the comments on the site.

[Frits]

^
One sided view is biased.

[CarThief]

Just shut up. You havent played in ages and the only ghoul people say you play well is an Creeper. Even if so, you play humans most of the time, and that probaly wasnt even so recently, either. Hell, you didnt even bother to be on-topic. (Seriously, make your own view on the classes, i doubt you'd do any better.)

Well, i'd try to be on-topic, but all the other classes seem fine. Its getting close to being well balanced, i guess. Altrough balance pretty much is decided by the map in most cases. When GVH:CD comes, the new classes will probaly need some ajusting, possibily.
I'm sure the HP idea on Jitterrape should work out, provided the humans can manage to get the first attack, but that rarely is an problem if they know where to camp.

[Mobius]

Just shut up. You havent played in ages and the only ghoul people say you play well is an Creeper. Even if so, you play humans most of the time, and that probaly wasnt even so recently, either. Hell, you didnt even bother to be on-topic. (Seriously, make your own view on the classes, i doubt you'd do any better.)

^RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

lol u mad?

Well, i'd try to be on-topic, but all the other classes seem fine. Its getting close to being well balanced, i guess. Altrough balance pretty much is decided by the map in most cases. When GVH:CD comes, the new classes will probaly need some ajusting, possibily.
I'm sure the HP idea on Jitterrape should work out, provided the humans can manage to get the first attack, but that rarely is an problem if they know where to camp.

I thought the hatred stems from humans camping in the first place?

I don't feel like repeating what I repeated in the Hunter thread. You already know my points about the metagame.

[CarThief]

I'd say camping remains at second place, the number one problem would be the balance of the classes. If that goes to hell, no matter what map (even if it has exceptions, it'd still be hell in general). Its close to being balanced, probaly, anyway.
Well, i do hope instead of an insult he can think of an reason why not, if he's against it. (Probaly every hunter player would be. :P)

[Mobius]

Well, i do hope instead of an insult he can think of an reason why not, if he's against it. (Probaly every hunter player would be. :P)

You were referring to who?

After having played against you and some other person. I am convinced that a jitter nurf will harm no one. The typical line of thinking is, "HE ISN'T SLOW! OH NO! A FAIR MAP IS TOO DANGEROUS FOR A JITTER! IT'S CALLED A JITTER RAPE," in which really means, "I am only half decent with this class."

I've seen some really good jitter players out there. I am sure they won't be hindered by a tweak.