[Maps] CSCM Pack. V5c + Remixed maps (Under new management)

[Mr. X]

KY?  Kentucky maps?  I'm confused.

[Galaxy Sisbro]

King Yamato maps. Sorry for the confusion here.

[Flandre Scarlet]

KY?  Kentucky maps?  I'm confused.

King yamato.

And your comment made me laugh. A lot.

[Mr. X]

I probably should have known that.  Anyhoo, I haven't played these maps yet but I do have one complaint.

67MBs?  WTF, MM8BDM isn't even that big!

[Galaxy Sisbro]

That's due of the non-8 bit music included here. If Mess makes an update, i think he is gonna make 2 wads due of super-size.

[Mr. X]

Upon opening the pk3 and music wad, I see it includes every stage's remix, not just the ones included.  This is a problem.  However, if I remember correctly, didn't Complete Works have a soundtrack that you had to buy and thus isn't allowed to be passed out on this forum?

[Galaxy Sisbro]

CMM Said it long ago: Mega Man original music is okay. Mega Man 8 bit music is soundtrack that you had to buy, but, after all, the game (MM8BDM) had publicity in capcom forums.

Also, for all the whole music of complete works, the remixed maps we're not completed. So wait until every remixed map is made. so there will not be junk music there

[Hallan Parva]

And now time for the second episode of Cutstuff Fails At Life!! *cue sitcom-style canned cheering*
(A.K.A. SmashBro's "in-depth" review of the new Cutstuff Communist Community Map Pack)

X denotes a "pimped-out" upgraded map. DM denotes a default map packed with the game.

BombMan X: Too fucking huge. Too many pits. Weapon selection is easily forgettable. The map's overly symmetrical, you can get turned around easily. IMHO the worst of the entire pack, it left a sour taste in my mouth.

CutMan X: It's one of the DW maps but it was meant for the Upgraded Maps pack anyway so I won't bitch about it. I like how you added fencing so you can see / shoot into the dead-ends on ground level. I also like the blocks in the upper halls, though I don't like Proto Buster and no real anti-shield counter.

ElecMan X: It's small, yet it doesn't feel as cramped as CutMan DM. I love the varying heights and the bridges, and I really love Eddie. It's perfect for small games or duels. One of the best in the pack IMHO.

IceMan X: I like how there's no douchy underground teleporter room and it's just one big map. There's more emphasis on above-ground vs. under-water combat, which is nice. My only complaint is once you dive, it's hard to get back up. More stairs/ladders/Rush Coil would help things out a lot. Oh yeah, if it's not already there I want a Top Spin pickup.

FireMan X: SO MANY FUCKING FIRE TRAPS AND SO MUCH LAVA EVERYWHERE. It's nigh-impossible to climb the ladders to get Skull Barrier and Wind Storm. Also, one of the spawn points is near Blizzard Attack and BETWEEN two fire traps? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING.

MM1 Wily X: A fun map, lots of variation between rooms, lots of space to run around in, and an excellent weapons spread. Yes, there's a death pit or two, but they're obviously death pits so accidental death is unlikely. My only complaint is that there's only one path between upstairs and downstairs. (I don't count the teleporter since it's one-way.) Either add more ways to change floors or cut out the upstairs altogether. Other than that it's one of my favorite maps in the pack!

MM2 Wily X: I'd love to see Gravity Hold (so it can CRITICAL HIT!! players on bridges, lol) but if it's too cheap/hax then don't do it. Otherwise, see Episode 1 for most of my complaints.

MetalMan X: It's symmetrical and large, things that don't mix (like in FUCKING BOMBMAN X). Both the side pathways between the "land" dead-end and the Thunder Beam rotating area are exactly the same! The stage is waaaaaay too large and right before the "pit" dead-end (with the six conveyor belts) there's a giant wall. Why? Also, there are about four death pits placed around in said giant wall. The pits are so deep, you can't see what's down them. So, naturally, I thought they were warp holes (since they're so small and you can't see the bottoms) like in IceMan DM or QuickMan DM. Boy, was I pissed when I fell down them and DIED.

DrillMan X: I like how you incorporated the teleporter "inside-outside" part from DrillMan DM, I liked that. Other than that there's not much to say about the map, I think it's great and all the pathways are unique. It's good for medium-sized matches, even better for Possession. Overall one of my favorites.

StoneManX: Way too big. I mean, it's REALLY too big. And it seems pretty much impossible to get the Sakugarne. HOW DO YOU DO IT?

SkullMan X: Okay I cheated, I actually played this map from DL'ing it from some other dude's map thread. But I must admit, it's a great map, not too big not too small, with a good weapon assortment and lots of different paths. Overall, I liked it a lot.

Fucking Touhou Mansion Thingy: I already ranted about how I hated the map, but here's an extra bit I wanted to share... Make it possible to go inside the mansion through the clock! Like, I want to be able to jump in the clock and be somewhere in the mansion (preferrably somewhere with conveyors/gears/moving platforms). I want to feel like Mario dang it!

Every Other Map: I'll review when I feel like it



In case you missed Episode 1, here it is again:

(click to show/hide)

And now time for SmashBro's "cliff notes" review of the new Cutstuff Communist Community Map Pack


The recurring theme I'm seeing in every map is "death pits, floating platforms, fucking huge maps". The biggest perpetrator of these rules would be BombMan X, I'd have to say.

Why in the love of Wily are there EIGHT TANGO ROLLS in MM2 Wily X? And why aren't there any Item-1's? It's the MM2 stage, couldn't you add the MM2 utility item? It would also help avoid congestion near the wall ladders IMHO ;)

DiveMan X has death pits (lame) that aren't that deep (super-lame).

MetalMan X has death pits (reasonable) that are so deep YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT'S DOWN THEM. I thought they led to other rooms, but I quickly found out otherwise. (They suck, make them shallower so you can see the black "pit" part.)

I thought the rotating Thunder Beam and oil barrels on MetalMan X were cute. SCORE +1

DrillMan X is the best map ever.

BombMan X is too fucking big.

ElecMan X is awesome and a lot less campy than "original" ElecMan.


That's all for now, stay tuned for the next episode of Cutstuff Fails At Life (I'm kidding. The pack's good, but some unsavory maps spoil the mood.)

If you didn't know already, I reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally hate BombMan X. I hate it with a passion.

[Mr. X]

Alright, I'm going to critique every map in this pack, but not all at once as that would take me forever.  Right now, I'm just going to do the remixed maps.  This is written as I walk around in them with no bots and not online.

MM1BOMX
Very dull layout.  It's a symmetrical map basically with 4 almost symmetrical areas within the symmetrical map.  Plus, it's cheap death central.  Just wandering around, I ended up with about 5 deaths due to walking off a ledge with no clear indication that there was going to be a drop below me.  There are areas where it seems like there should be floor and there isn't.  Quite frankly, I'd totally overhaul the whole map.

MM1CUTX
It's also symmetrical, but I could see matches here being somewhat fun.  I think for the size of the map, you have too many different kinds of weapons available.  This creates a problem of you looking around for the one weapon you want and not being able to find it because there's only one on the whole map and it all looks the same.  I'm glad you didn't go for a large Cut Man stage as it would have been an eyesore.  Overall, it's ok, but nothing special.

MM1ELECX
As soon as I entered the map, I had to check who made it.  Not surprised it's DTD.  I love it.  It's better than Elec Man's map in MM8BDM and despite the textures, it manages to not be a total eyesore thanks to the blue accents on the walls.  My only gripe is that you put Rolling Cutter, a W Tank, and Eddie within 2 seconds of each other.  Those are all pretty powerful and it makes it easy for somebody to grab them all in one go.

MM1FIRX
I know fire traps are cool, but the map could stand to lose a few of them.  Plus, the outer portion I could imagine being a total pain while trying to fight somebody.  Also, it's symmetrical.  I understand having like one or two symmetrical maps in the pack but so far there's only been one that ISN'T symmetrical.  The outside portion could use a bit less death and the fire traps are overdone.  However, the layout isn't totally boring like Bomb Man's stage.  I'd say it's a bit worse than Cut Man's stage but not as bad as Bomb Man's stage.

MM1ICEX (btw, this stage isn't listed in your credits on the front page)
Correct me if I'm wrong but in Ice Man's stage in Mega Man, wasn't there like one small pool of water in the whole stage?  I mean, this map makes him look like a water robot master!  80% of the stage is water, and underwater, all of the textures are the same which makes it all just look the same and very hard to navigate.  Overall, the map just seems boring and confusing.  Add a lot more land or at the very least some texture variety to the underwater portion.

MM1DW1X
I spawn and immediately see a huge graphical glitch and in OpenGL nonetheless.  I see the map has upper and lower sectors.  Ditch them as I'm sure they are the cause and just have teleporters to the top section if you have to.

(click to show/hide)

The pits here are too deep and make you think there might be something down there.  If all you're going to have them for is to have spikes in them, why even make them deep at all?  You can make them just 64 units deep and allow everybody to see the spikes.  The stage also needs more texture variety on the first floor as all of the walls look the same.  The M tank is way too easy to get, and I think the stage is way too big for it's own good.  I say remove half of the bottom portion and put the top portion in its place so it's all on one floor and doesn't all look the same.  Interesting layout, but too ambitious for its own good.

MM2DW1X
This stage suffers from lag as bad as Ice Man's official stage does.  Also, it's symmetrical and it's pretty much the last thing I'd expect from Mega Man 2 Dr. Wily Stage 1.  I admire the 3 floor design but I feel it would be better in a stage with a unique layout (Personally, I'd love to see a Wood Man stage with them as paths between trees).  I just think MM2DW1 deserves a better layout that's also more open.  CutmanMike nailed that battlefield feel perfectly in the original.  If you don't want to do a battlefield, I'd recommend making a MM2DW2 stage then.  Overall, the layout is pretty boring.

MM2METX
Again with the pit spam.  The lesser the chance of accidentally falling into a hole that may not even look like it will kill you, the better.  I like the idea of having items on conveyor belts.  However, the problem with this stage is the same problem my original CTF05 map had before I redid it into the one that was accepted:  It seems like its goal is to kill you rather than provide a fun battlefield.  I'd redo the whole thing with less death.  Also, it's pretty much symmetrical.  Fewer symmetrical maps is better and considering the count is 3 to 5 in favor of symmetrical, that's not a good thing.

MM3NEEX
Thin platforms over death pits almost guarantees that nobody in their right mind will even go into half of the stage except to grab a weapon and get the Hell out of there.  As for the part that isn't deadly, I feel like there should be something in the very open part, like having a part at a different height just to break it up.  There's just that big open space with one tiny health capsule.  Maybe a weapon or as I said, a platform with little height would break it up.

MM4DC1X
The interior part is kind of confusing because all of the walls are the same.  The map also seems too big for what it is, like you wanted to make a big map, only had a few ideas, and then just made random halls and rooms to make it bigger.  I recommend having the bigger rooms closer together and having only very small hallways between them to avoid making the map more confusing than it needs to be.  The large outside part also kind of looks a bit bland but unlike the last map, there's nothing I can think of to make it look better other than making it just a bit smaller.

MM4DIVX
First of all, if this is Dive Man's stage, why are Centaur's pillars there?  The map is symmetrical and there isn't enough height differential in the map to make fighting in low gravity worthwhile.  Moby serves no purpose other than "Hey, there's Moby!" and there are too many death pits.  Come to think of it, Did Dive Man's stage in MM4 even have death pits?  The map just has a very dull layout and doesn't seem too enjoyable at all.  I recommend just starting over here as this layout really doesn't work.

MM4DRIX
I knew you had potential, Vyse.  I like this map.  The inside can be a little bit annoying because all of the outer rooms have the same basic texture, but the visual clues on the walls and ceiling give you a general idea of where you are.  Although the shape is basically a circle, the rooms have enough variety to not feel too boring, although a little more height changes between rooms would both make the layout more interesting and make it more obvious where exactly you are in the map.  Still, the map is nice and just needs more tuning, not an overhaul.

MM4RINX
The map has a fairly dull layout, but I think I like it more than the original.  I think the map is ok but to be honest, I can't think of too much to change because there just isn't much to work with for Ring Man unless you can figure out how to make his rainbow platforms work well in MM8BDM.  Perhaps add just a wee bit more room around the pits to make it better suited for fighting.  All in all, Ring Man's stage is stupid in MM4 and I feel bad for anyone who tries making it work in MM8BDM.

MM4SKUX
I like this map.  I find some of the powerup placements to be weird though.  Why is there a single small energy pellet and a single small weapon energy just sitting in the middle of the map with nothing around them?  I'd add a weapon there (likely a repeat of something already in the map) or something to make it look less odd.  Also, the random teleporter/E-tank jump just looks stupid.  It looks like the teleporter is just floating in mid air.  I'd either make it just be a platform with a teleporter on it or remove it altogether.  Also, you can reach the Skull Barrier with a strafe-jump.  Is this intentional?

MM5NAPX
Eh, this map is ok I guess.  The green room to the right of the bunker entrance looks kind of boring but I think that could be fixed by making the hallways leading to the room smaller.  The layout just seems (if you're playing a drinking game, you might want to reach for your beverage now) a bit dull.  Unfortunately, I can't quite put my finger on why.  It just seems boring.  I'm sorry I can't be more help.

MM5STOX
Why are Yamato Man's pipes here?  Whatever...  Anyhoo, the map is really open with not much going on other than death pits that I can foresee being a big pain in everybody's backsides.  Oddly enough, I like the tunnels.  They look nice and I think they'd be fun to fight in.  Unfortunately, there aren't more of them and they're only a small part of the map.  The map seems a bit...yeah, I think I've said it enough.

Overall, there's some nice gems in here like Elec Man, Drill Man, and Skull Man's maps.  There's a few that are just there, and then there's quite a few that are just not that good.  A general complaint is that a lot of the maps had odd textures such as platforms that are 96 wide yet the texture is meant for platforms that are 128 units wide.  Sometimes this is unavoidable but most of the time it's not.

[Tesseractal]

Man, people have a complete hate for symmetry.  As not to rehash previous discussions, yes I know it's boring.  There are two things to keep in mind here though.  The remixed maps were not originally going to be part of the CSCM pack, so yes, CSCM01 and MM1CUTX do share some similarities but I would argue they're not exactly the same.  Also, in most cases the maps reflect their original map style.  So MM1CUTX is symmetrical because the original was.  MM4DC1X is not symmetrical because the original was not.  This is just something I chose to go with when designing my maps and it's fine if you disagree with it. (Though, of course, I hate you with the ..um...energy of 1000 suns...yup, that's it).  

I, like Kapus, do not hate on symmetry. I believe there is actually good and bad symmetry. What's "bad symmetry"? Think weapon placement. If weapons are symmetrically in opposite places from each other... that's lame. (yes, it happens in Heat Man. I don't like it there either) What's "good symmetry"? Well, ladder placement is one. Having a single ladder can get frustating in large matches. When dual ladders show up in Flame Man, Crash Man, etc. that's good. (and invisible ladders are even better! dohoho) To me, MM1CUTX *should* be symmetrical, and the map ISN'T exactly the same as CSCM01- but it resembles CSCM01 more than the actual MM1CUT. *That's* what irks me greatly. If it were called say.... CSCM05X, I would be less miffed. It's really the presentation. You want a Doom Map Pack, call it that and I'd be fine. (and so on. Again, I appreciate the work put into the mapmaking to begin with and am not trying to diminish your ability)

As for Dive Man, I guess I could close that gap between the buildings, but in testing I found that falling in there was more a move of carelessness than an unavoidable trap.  Has anyone else found it to be a problem?  (Yes I'm sorry about the symmetry in that map, you can chalk that one up to lazyness.  Might fix that one up in the future.)

Again the symmetry is not an issue, imo. I feel that the deathpits aren't menacing- they're needless, and the map becomes needlessly deathprone. Imagine if Snake Man's map had deathpits or say... DEATHSPIKES between every sector/room. You could dodge them, and so could I, but it'd make the map look like a string of islands and it'd feel tacky or "needless". Right now the map looks like a string of islands, and I think connecting them would make it look more polish. (You may disagree with this, but if you do, polish it up somehow. It'll help your cause/reduce complaints)

@Mr. X: The original MM4 Dive Man stage DID have death pits- In fact, near the Moby. The original level had more spikes than death pits iirc, and it was NOT a long string of islands. <.<

[Mr. X]

Alright, I thought there might be one in there but I couldn't remember.  Still doesn't change my feelings on the map though.

[-FiniteZero-]

@Mr. X: The original MM4 Dive Man stage DID have death pits- In fact, near the Moby.

That's not a deathpit. That's a spike pit.

There is a pit, but it's just an alternate path. Actually, that would be an interesting little part of a stage.

[Mr. X]

Ok, so other than the wire/balloon (I forget which) pit, was there an honest to goodness death pit?

[-FiniteZero-]

There are alot of spikes, but no deathpits.

[Mr. X]

Alright then, that's exactly what I thought.