[Maps] CSCM Pack. V5c + Remixed maps (Under new management)

[Shade Guy]

Do you enjoy Software visual errors? Neither do I, but MM6CENXmkii is no stranger to them. (Beware, spoilers contain screenshots.)

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There's more, though they all follow the general trend of 'wrapped midtextures stretching into the sky from certain angles'. You should be able to fix these by 'pushing in' the water midtexture by...Any amount, really. Just make it so that the midtexture isn't on the very edge of the linedef, as it is currently. (I had to fix this problem in a few of my SHARP maps.)

Now for some other visual things that bug me.

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The waterfall should look better without the black bit at the top. Change the offset to 32 or something.

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Here, it appears that you caught on to the black bit on the waterfall not looking too good (leading me to think that the waterfall shown in the previous screenshot was the result of an oversight), but still, I think it would look better without any black at all. Change the offset to 32 here, as well.

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The texture used on this column appear to be misused; generally (or at least following MM6CEN), it should only be used in underwater areas...When this area isn't underwater. The solid blue colour used at the top of the column doesn't look to good either, since the column itself is rather large. That is, it doesn't seem right to use a single-colour texture over such large space.

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The use of water in these two screenshots doesn't sit right with me either; it's hard to explain, but having two sides to the 'wall' of water doesn't look too good. Kinda gives off the sense that the water is a box, or something. Anyway, I would suggest editing these areas so they look like the other 'walls of water'; only one side visible.

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This is an underwater area, but there is a clear view of the sky...? Doesn't really make sense to me.

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The wall textures are used a bit oddly in the map in general, but this is the most glaring spot. I think it would look better here (and everywhere else in the map, too) if the dark green lines, well, lined up. Otherwise, you get this mess.

As for the flowing water around the map, it may look better if you used a variant of the waterfall texture similar to how Toad Man uses it, instead of just using CWATER with a scroll texture script. Especially in the Flash Bomb area, because the normally static CWATER texture doesn't look right when it's scrolled that fast. On the subject of water, the reverse waterfall is interesting, but is reduced to a novelty since it just takes too long to climb. Increase the force of the Thrust Thing Z linedef action by a bit.

But enough about the visuals, and on to the most important thing in a map: the layout. The layout is a bit odd, since it appears to be constructed of several symmetrical bits pasted together. That said, there's nothing wrong with areas having their own symmetry, but the way all the areas are put together doesn't sit right with me (I'm a bit of a aesthetic nut; proportions and the like can bug me to no end). The map seems weighted to the right, with the area with Arrow Upgrade being much larger than the area with Flash Bomb on the other side. To 'balance' the map, you could probably expand on the Flash Bomb room, and add another path connecting that room with the Screw Crusher ledge.

I also noticed that the upside-down water gimmick that you called a "unique gimmick that separates it from other maps" was only relegated to one room, which is off to the side. But I suppose it's best to limit use of a gimmick like that, instead of using it in excess, like how it was in the old MM6CENX.

Regardless, it's already an improvement over the old MM6CENX. But really, that isn't saying much, and I wouldn't aim to just be better than that map. That type of thinking sets the bar of quality too low, you know?
(Also, looking at the map in DB2, there are two Yashichis.)

[Knux]

Shade, I appreciate you taking the time to review the map. Most of the texture errors have been fixed by Mess, excluding the water walls which I'll get to fix following that tip you posted. I was already aware of that happening as I built it while on Software mode. Thankfully, it doesn't happen on OpenGL. The reason I kept the gimmick to one room is just what you thought it was. I hate abusing gimmicks. In fact, I was seriously considering having no gimmicks at all in this map if possible, but it turned unavoidable, I guess. The reason there are two yachishis is because one is used on the dummy sector of the water gimmick to make it work (ask Mess, I have no damn idea how that works) and the other is the hidden one, as usual.

That said, this line bothers me:

But really, that isn't saying much, and I wouldn't aim to just be better than that map. That type of thinking sets the bar of quality too low, you know?

No, excuse me. I put time and effort into this thing, unlike MM2AIRX which I made in just one day. I always took a 2-3 day break before coming up with a new room, and even more when I hit a block. There were two rooms which I deleted over three times until I was satisfied with the feel. Jax also gave me some of the layout ideas, so this isn't all my work. It's true that the map seems like it's leaning to the right, but I wanted to avoid a maze. The smaller I could keep things, the better. I didn't want to make a path from the Flash Bomb room to the Screw Crusher platform because I felt it was going to look bad. While I appreciate your review, ending it with something like that makes it sound like I'm just dicking around.

[fortegigasgospel]

Now for some other visual things that bug me.

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The waterfall should look better without the black bit at the top. Change the offset to 32 or something.

(click to show/hide)

Here, it appears that you caught on to the black bit on the waterfall not looking too good (leading me to think that the waterfall shown in the previous screenshot was the result of an oversight), but still, I think it would look better without any black at all. Change the offset to 32 here, as well.

(click to show/hide)

The texture used on this column appear to be misused; generally (or at least following MM6CEN), it should only be used in underwater areas...When this area isn't underwater. The solid blue colour used at the top of the column doesn't look to good either, since the column itself is rather large. That is, it doesn't seem right to use a single-colour texture over such large space.

All three of these are actually easily fixed by checking Lower Unpegged.

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The wall textures are used a bit oddly in the map in general, but this is the most glaring spot. I think it would look better here (and everywhere else in the map, too) if the dark green lines, well, lined up. Otherwise, you get this mess.

Also an easy fix but this time with Upper Unpegged.

[Knux]

Well, have this in the meantime:

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Mess was here.

I didn't answer why there's a room with water and holes through which the sky can be seen. That's because I thought it was painfully obvious reality is distorted.  

[Shade Guy]

While I appreciate your review, ending it with something like that makes it sound like I'm just dicking around.

Apologies, what I meant to say was that being better than the old MM6CENX isn't much of an achievement because of how bad the old MM6CENX was. The additional comment was merely discouraging the type of thinking that 'it's good enough if it's an improvement', and not an implication that you had this in mind. If the comment was insulting to anyone, it would be to T3H_PL4Y3R >_>

As for the concerns about size, another potential layout suggestion would be to decrease the size of the right side of the map, if possible. That is, you could scale down the underwater room with Spark Shot and Gemini Laser, shift the Arrow Upgrade room to the left, and maybe even remove the area with the fountain with Treble Sentry at the top. Doing so would balance out the map, and if the Bubble Lead room was directly connected to the Gyro Attack side of the Arrow Buster area, it would potentially remove both issues I mentioned about the 'two sides to a wall of water' thing.

[Knux]

As for the concerns about size, another potential layout suggestion would be to decrease the size of the right side of the map, if possible. That is, you could scale down the underwater room with Spark Shot and Gemini Laser, shift the Arrow Upgrade room to the left, and maybe even remove the area with the fountain with Treble Sentry at the top. Doing so would balance out the map, and if the Bubble Lead room was directly connected to the Gyro Attack side of the Arrow Buster area, it would potentially remove both issues I mentioned about the 'two sides to a wall of water' thing.

I plan to do something about the north-middle room (the one with the two pillars) because Jax and I thought it was the most boring one. But when I do, I'm gonna try to do that suggestion. To be honest, the room with Gemini Laser and Spark Shock feels more like filler compared to the rest of the map, and I really wouldn't mind it gone. Not to mention that having a room full of water and one with water going up and down side by side feels a little weird, even for a place with distorted reality.

Welp, off to work on Dun Dun Remixed.

[Knux]

Ohei, double posting.

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It's here, finally. Using YD's scrapped RNCQUI layout as a base (with permission), MM1GUTX is ready for some testing. Note that some things may change in the final map. The music is something I wanted to get away with, but the map will use the CW version when and if it goes into CSCM. The area with Fire Storm is probably going to change as well. I also just noticed that I mistakenly left two Tangos in the cave. That's definitely getting fixed.

You guessed it, MegaTwerp!

[Shade Guy]

This has probably been thought of before, but it has not properly been addressed as far as I can see. To be honest, I don't really care, but it seems like the most logical thing to do...So, I'll just put it out there.

Merge content from the Powered Up expansion with CSCMR.

I would post this in the Powered Up expansion thread, but it is equally as relevant to CSCMR as it is to Powered Up. Plus, this is the more active expansion of the two.

Let's face it; the original MMPU expansion is obsolete. MM8BDM v3a, along with the inclusion of MM8 content, has taken the better parts of Powered Up; brand new maps for Time and Oil, plus revised versions of Time Slow and Oil Slider (and even a new Oil Man skin). So, what to do with the original Time and Oil maps? Slap on the Remixed label, replace the textures with the ones provided in MM8BDM v3a and include it in CSCMR; reduce, reuse, recycle.

And what about the other maps in the Powered Up expansion? Consider including them in CSCMR as replacements. Generally, the PU counterparts are better than the Remixed counterparts, and a few of them follow the general concept of Remixed maps to boot; MMPFIR features those fire pillars, which are not included in MM1FIR. Same goes for MMPELE with the vertical electric traps. MMPGUT would have to get the shaft though; Knux has already shown a relatively finished MM1GUTX, which appears to be an improvement over its Powered Up counterpart (amusingly, this map is also recycled). Since CSCMR is all about community input, you could even make a poll or something, and let the vocal minority community decide.

As for the other content in Powered Up; Roll skins, bosses...Unfortunately, they don't fit. Not all content can be recycled, after all. I suppose Energy Balancer and Roll Swing could still be included (and even a version of Time Slow with arrows if people are feeling petty). The Charge Upgrade however, is definitely made redundant by the Laser/Arrow Upgrades. Even Roll Swing could be replaced in maps by either Slash Claw or Flame Sword (or any melee weapon, really). And hell, if people want Roll skins that badly, a Roll skin pack could be released or something, I don't care.

Now, I admit that I am generally against the idea of quantity over quality, which may not add up when I suggest adding Time and Oil to CSCMR, but keep in mind that this suggestion focuses more on replacement than addition. Take MM1CUTX, for example; replacing it with MMPCUT would be an obvious improvement. I merely think adding MMPTIM and MMPOIL as Remixed maps is just too hilarious to pass up, considering they were the original versions of these maps.

Apologies if this has already been discussed by the Powered Up team in private. If this idea has already been set to be included, I will instead pretend that I had the idea first. Thank you for your time.

[Emmanuelf06]

Damn ! mm1gutx est really a nice map ! Love the level design and....the GUTSMAN REMIX ! (from iwao) =D

need to play this map with TLMS soon

[Knux]

I'm waiting for Thursday so I can get to making the changes it needs, as well as making changes to my other remix maps.
I'm looking at you and your huge ass, laggy layout, MM5WAVX.

Now, about the PU maps. And this is assuming they'd get in here:

- MMPBOM is essentially the same as the remix, just in bite size. I don't call any shots here, but I'd like to see one Bomb Man map that isn't entirely symetrical. Otherwise, widening the passages a bit would be fine.
- MMPCUT has a lot of jumping, IIRC. It gets annoying at a point, but the layout is otherwise very nice.
- MMPICE could use a way to go back up from the place with water and frozen palm trees to the bunker above other than the teleporter, just for flow. People that fall there encountering opponents in the underwater hill above are usually trapped.
- MMPFIR the fire pillars get in the way so much that it makes certain paths not worth traveling. If instead, they were used to block worthy pickups, it'd be fine. Then again, I don't remember what items/weapons they guarded as it's been a while since I played DM on PU maps.
- MMPELE: Maybe add rails to the path outside the teleporter (and in said balcony too) to people don't accidentally run backwards to their deaths.

With all of that said, I'd feel bad calling PU obsolete. I remember beating the campaign on my first try, accidentally getting the secret boss fight I didn't knew existed and beating him, and dying a lot on that final boss. I had fun and have good memories of it, despite the few flaws that didn't really ruin the experience.

[Messatsu]

I really have no intention of merging CSCMR with Powered UP.  The primary reason is I intend for CSCM to be a map pack without weapons or other compatibility limiting items so that it can be used on any mode.  In addition, PU has enough in it at the moment that I believe it still warrants its own release.

[Hallan Parva]

Also, your idea was hideous in that it involved using core textures...


What, do you all just hate NemZ or something?

[Donutyoshi]

What? Scarlet Devil Mansion, Dogman, Herman, and Goldman used it's own textures.

Shutup about the part with the teleporters.

[Knux]

I wasn't really going to post this here, but eh.

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Yep!

MM10COMX is ready for everyone to play. Although the name says it's a remix, I never really intended it for CSCM. It's more of a way to say it's not the official map, and something I did for fun. Regardless, here it is. Thanks to Lego for helping with the sandstorm scripts.

Get it here!

Some things to notice, though. If you're under any ceiling that has the sky on it, the sandstorm will affect you. Anywhere else (black ceilings), you'll be unaffected. Also, the music may be a bit loud despite my effort of lowering it's volume in Audacity, so just turn down the music volume a little if it is. Finally, make sure you have Fog ON so you can see the cool fog effect during a sandstorm. It's under Options > Display Options > OpenGL Options > Preferences (make sure to play the map in OpenGL if you can).

Originally posted this in the classes topic by accident. I dun goofed, son.

[CStar7]

Wow! Very nice! A professional looking map if I do say so myself!

Are you planning on doing any more?