[Maps] CSCM Pack. V5c + Remixed maps (Under new management)

[Ivory]

Alright. Let's tone down, shall we?

Flandre, as a fellow map maker, I understand what it's like to do something you really like, yet is unpopular with other players. What you do is not just blow them off like this. Take consideration, listen carefully. If 30 people say something is a problem, and you still think there is no problem because it's the way you like it. There IS a problem. Obviously, no one can force you to make a change, however there are ways to improve on a concept without destroying it. It's what I do with my I-Pack and the official CTF maps. I loved the old design of edge of the dam. It however had problems with layout, cramped bridges specifically. I still kept everything true to my original design, I just expanded it to be superior.

There is however a difference from being justified, and defending your choice tooth and nail. A good map maker should be able to separate themselves from his or her work and look at it objectively. Also try spectating a match on your own map. Follow people, go see where they keep running into problems and see how to fix them.

My best advice is to separate yourself from your work and learn to look at it objectively and to accept listen to what the players have to say. You obviously can't please everyone, but if you are getting this many complaints for similar reasons, it's worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

I need a mirror.....I'm getting a blank page in the wadhost link

(click to show/hide)

[Flandre Scarlet]

Alright. Let's tone down, shall we?

Flandre, as a fellow map maker, I understand what it's like to do something you really like, yet is unpopular with other players. What you do is not just blow them off like this. Take consideration, listen carefully. If 30 people say something is a problem, and you still think there is no problem because it's the way you like it. There IS a problem. Obviously, no one can force you to make a change, however there are ways to improve on a concept without destroying it. It's what I do with my I-Pack and the official CTF maps. I loved the old design of edge of the dam. It however had problems with layout, cramped bridges specifically. I still kept everything true to my original design, I just expanded it to be superior.

There is however a difference from being justified, and defending your choice tooth and nail. A good map maker should be able to separate themselves from his or her work and look at it objectively. Also try spectating a match on your own map. Follow people, go see where they keep running into problems and see how to fix them.

My best advice is to separate yourself from your work and learn to look at it objectively and to accept listen to what the players have to say. You obviously can't please everyone, but if you are getting this many complaints for similar reasons, it's worth looking into.

Alright Ivory. Thank you for this. While reading this, I had a better Idea. I'll keep everything the way it is at the extended version. At the smaller, I'll fix everything people complain about. That way, I can be happy because it'll be made the way I wanted it to be made.

[Mr. X]

There we go, that's a good solution.

[SickSadWorld]

A good map maker should be able to separate themselves from his or her work and look at it objectively. Also try spectating a match on your own map. Follow people, go see where they keep running into problems and see how to fix them.

My best advice is to separate yourself from your work and learn to look at it objectively and to accept listen to what the players have to say. You obviously can't please everyone, but if you are getting this many complaints for similar reasons, it's worth looking into.

Great advice

[Hallan Parva]

HALLELUJAH a solution!

Also lol I'm not a troll, and I didn't reference trolls. In fact, I enjoy the Touhou series. (Okay, maybe "occasional boredom cure" is a better choice of words ) Why did you think I suggested the Patchouli Library map?

The only thing that grinds me is the over-obsessive 28% of the Touhou fanbase. Gah, it's worse than Sonic furries. [flamewar]

[Flandre Scarlet]

HALLELUJAH a solution!

Also lol I'm not a troll, and I didn't reference trolls. In fact, I enjoy the Touhou series. (Okay, maybe "occasional boredom cure" is a better choice of words ) Why did you think I suggested the Patchouli Library map?

The only thing that grinds me is the over-obsessive 28% of the Touhou fanbase. Gah, it's worse than Sonic furries. [flamewar]

You didn't, but I did.

Idk nothing about sonic furries, so meh.

Making the textures for the library is going to be hardcore... OY

[Gummywormz]

I only have one issue so far:

MM2DW1X = lag everywhere.

[Tesseractal]

Well, well. This is a bit more than I expected. It's come a long way from DW_DM, eh? I have yet to "soak in" the magnitude of such an expansive pack at the moment, so I will wait until I've had a bit of time with each map before I start raising points. Except one.

MM1CUTX. It's exactly like CSCM01. I hate to say "have you no shame, Messatsu" but... Have you no shame? Or it reeks of a quality that says something like "I'm not going to deviate beyond one map design, a giant freaking ring with a teleport in it". As I said before, I want to bring no harm to your mapmaking ability - that's fine, but the idea that the first remix map of a project is based off DM_DW1 - it's a bit sour, and I'll leave it at that for now.

Oh and the other thing. Make a freaking contiguous platform layout! This problem is horrible in: DIVX, BOMX, a little less horrible in: FIRX, NAPX. What do I mean? In DivemanX it's the worst, it's possible to miss/mistime a jump slightly and fall off a platform into a narrow death pit between two land masses. Ideally, I do not envision any map being a giant floating series of platforms. Leave that to Gyro Man/IDM03/other troll maps. Connect the maps, put your death pits on the end if you have to, but even MM4DRI has blackspace on the end and there's no deathpits added. In fact, I say having a death pit in a water stage really makes no sense at all, but whatever. There seems to be some craze with deathpits going around(I suggested in jest adding them to Flan's map on the edges of the roof/garden), but "death crevices" need to go.

I do like the general feel of the maps: steroid, supersized versions. What I want to remind you mapdevs: A lot of the level design in the in-game level is present in the 8BDM counterpart(see: firetraps for FireMan, as an example) and any elements of the NES version you can carry over is great. I give props to the "clone machine" tiles in MM1DW1X. That's what I'm talking about. Those are good.

[Shade Guy]

After a close inspection to every part of the remix maps doing a quick run through of all the remix maps, relying on my keen sense of exploration the automap, here's what I have to say...

I found that several maps had more than one line of symmetry which in my opinion is a bad thing. It seemed like most of the time, I was practically going around one part of a map repeated several times. I find it fine for a map to have just one line of symmetry, heck, several official maps do that. But it seems like the creator has run out of ideas when there's more than one.

On another note, some maps had it so the automap didn't show parts of the level that you haven't been to yet, which is not what I think is supposed to happen.

Don't forget that I still need to thoroughly go through each map before my criticisms become valid   .

[Messatsu]

Man, people have a complete hate for symmetry.  As not to rehash previous discussions, yes I know it's boring.  There are two things to keep in mind here though.  The remixed maps were not originally going to be part of the CSCM pack, so yes, CSCM01 and MM1CUTX do share some similarities but I would argue they're not exactly the same.  Also, in most cases the maps reflect their original map style.  So MM1CUTX is symmetrical because the original was.  MM4DC1X is not symmetrical because the original was not.  This is just something I chose to go with when designing my maps and it's fine if you disagree with it. (Though, of course, I hate you with the ..um...energy of 1000 suns...yup, that's it).  

As for Dive Man, I guess I could close that gap between the buildings, but in testing I found that falling in there was more a move of carelessness than an unavoidable trap.  Has anyone else found it to be a problem?  (Yes I'm sorry about the symmetry in that map, you can chalk that one up to lazyness.  Might fix that one up in the future.)

*To Kapus below: Apparently!

[Kapus]

Am I the only person who doesn't completely hate symmetry? I mean, sure maps should have an interesting layout, but I don't find symmetrical maps any less fun.

[Hallan Parva]

And now time for SmashBro's "cliff notes" review of the new Cutstuff Communist Community Map Pack


The recurring theme I'm seeing in every map is "death pits, floating platforms, fucking huge maps". The biggest perpetrator of these rules would be BombMan X, I'd have to say.

Why in the love of Wily are there EIGHT TANGO ROLLS in MM2 Wily X? And why aren't there any Item-1's? It's the MM2 stage, couldn't you add the MM2 utility item? It would also help avoid congestion near the wall ladders IMHO

DiveMan X has death pits (lame) that aren't that deep (super-lame).

MetalMan X has death pits (reasonable) that are so deep YOU CANNOT SEE WHAT'S DOWN THEM. I thought they led to other rooms, but I quickly found out otherwise. (They suck, make them shallower so you can see the black "pit" part.)

I thought the rotating Thunder Beam and oil barrels on MetalMan X were cute. SCORE +1

DrillMan X is the best map ever.

BombMan X is too fucking big.

ElecMan X is awesome and a lot less campy than "original" ElecMan.


That's all for now, stay tuned for the next episode of Cutstuff Fails At Life (I'm kidding. The pack's good, but some unsavory maps spoil the mood.)

[Mr. X]

Am I the only person who doesn't completely hate symmetry? I mean, sure maps should have an interesting layout, but I don't find symmetrical maps any less fun.

A few are fine.  However, there are already more than a few in the core game alone.  Adding even more of them is kind of pointless even if I did do it in my own pack but that was when there were only 4 main maps.  Plus, many of the symmetrical maps being added by the community are both symmetrical and have fairly boring layouts.

[Galaxy Sisbro]

I hate symmetry too. That's why i love some levels designs like KY ones, drill man and cossack.

But, let's share good points here too. From what i understand, criticism isn't only to tell people about the bad points. Smash does it, and i like that.