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November 27, 2014, 06:33:30 PM
Reply #105

Offline MusashiAA

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2014, 06:33:30 PM »
Friendly reminder that ROM hacks have beein doing that for years, and it never mattered. But I can't help to think putting that as a "selling point" is less a joke and more a confession of laziness on your part.

A good game isn't one that never recycles old content, just look at Mega Man games: mostly new graphics, music and weapons, same base level design, characters and gameplay. There is nothing wrong in using "stock" content, just as long as something else is new like new boss patterns, or new stage gimmicks, or a new control scheme and moves for the player character.

November 27, 2014, 06:44:03 PM
Reply #106

Offline Dr. Freeman

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2014, 06:44:03 PM »
I'm bored, so I'm just gonna go through this game (or as much as I have patience for) and talk about it as I go.

Right off, I do question why this is an installer and not an actual game. It's not a big deal (and I think Limelight might have done something similar...) but it is rather odd.

Though the general concept of recycling actual robot masters in fangames bugs me to no end. A cameo or something like Weapons Archive from 10 is one thing, but just saying "HEY GUYS IT'S THE SAME BOSSES" in something that's not a romhack just makes it seem lazy. A romhack is just hacking the base game, so keeping the bosses makes more sense, a fangame is something new made from the ground up. You're coding the same bosses anyway, just be original with them and don't make them samey mc same. Which they are. 4MI while a romhack, introduced new things that made each stage memorable and different, even while using the same graphics.

Oh and right away MM6 Intro.
Midi.
This is not a good sign.

And as was seen in the trailer, this is totally just going to recycle graphics and (midi) music from the original. Which basically already makes it so gameplay is the only thing it has going for it. Gameplay is important, but if he messes it up...

Not going to mention the charge things that Shinryu mentioned, but I will say that the walking feels weird. I can't tell if it's just me but it feels just a bit sluggish and off. I can't pinpoint it and it may be my imagination.

It has also just occurred to me that there's a score counter. That's really weird. That and the very first thing you run into are pit enemies. These are not good first impressions.
Speaking of weird, the enemies are all from the actual game but all of them feel stiff. The Hammer Joes have weird timing and the walking spring guy enemies from MM3 (Wow I dont' remember their names!) are super slow until they fall then they speed up for some reason before slowing back down. Weird is the only word I can think of to describe them. It's not BAD, but if you're going to just use normal enemies, at least have them act the same.

Also, it looks like it wants me to backtrack to the intro stage later on. That's just really freaking weird. No one likes backtracking. At least in the RM stages you can choose so it's a bit forgivable as if you play your cards right, you don't need to backtrack. But this is the intro stage. Having breakable boxes and ladders I can't reach is kinda dumb.

And then Knightman is talking.
...Okay?

And then the intro boss has spikes on the ceiling. I get that it's easy but it's rather unnecessary for the intro boss. Just seems like it's there to be more stressful than it really is (even though it's not a problem at all)
Oh god this weapon get midi is horrible. Why do so many fangames persist on using MIDIs? If you're going to make it look like the classic games, just use the freaking music and not crappy midis. This is so gross sounding.
HOLY GOD
My computer isn't that great, but it can handle a good chunk of things. It runs 8BDM just fine (not that taxing) generally handles multiplayer like Terraria and the such.
It cannot handle Toad Man in this game. I have no idea how it's optimized, but the game has moved to a freaking crawl due to this rain. I don't even know how this happens. I'm just gonna game over because I don't want to do this.

Wait.
There's no stage select option when you game over. Just continue and password.
So one game reset later and let's just go to Stone Man.

Well that's a lovely glitch with the spinny platform thing. Have to ride it, jump off, then get back on. I didn't get back on but it respawned so I went back jumped on it and it was stuck forever and I had to die.
And there's no checkpoint yet!
That's a restart because I don't care enough to actually beat it. I'll try Tornado Man if only because I'm curious.
And it's Wind Man graphics.
Because finding Tornado Man's tiles were too hard????
That's really weird that everything else is just the game but Tornado gets Wind (I presume Magma also doesn't get his own tiles)
Oh and a gimmick where parts of the background block your vision. Because everyone likes that one!
Oh wait, now it's Tornado Man tiles! That just makes the whole Wind Man even weirder.

That's enough for now. I can say I got a picture for the whole thing. Well, the second a MIDI plays you can probably guess the quality of the game. It's not offensively awful nor is it Mega Man Unlimited but it's boring and has a lot of really weird quirks. Just not in the good way.

November 27, 2014, 07:16:08 PM
Reply #107

Offline Shinryu

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2014, 07:16:08 PM »
Just got done doing some more testing on the Robot Master stages. Safe to say, I'm not exactly in a good mood after going through some of these, and I have the urge to vent some of it out. I may as well list the general and stage-specific things I discovered/found to be downright annoying.

[General Gameplay]
(click to show/hide)

[Toad Man's Stage]
(click to show/hide)

[Magma Man's stage]
(click to show/hide)

[Yamato Man's stage]
(click to show/hide)

...So yeah, I'm not exactly having fun with this game so far.

November 28, 2014, 02:20:14 AM
Reply #108

Offline finisher

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2014, 02:20:14 AM »
Hey Shinryu, are you planning to make a complete playthrough recording so I can can turn to it if I get stuck finding hidden items, secrets, etc? :P (seriously, though, it's a compliment; I often look at your videos when trying to find hidden items I missed and can't find)

EDIT: Looks like that won't be necessary. Someone got on it seemingly ASAP and it's on youtube, heh. Well, if I ever get stuck in my completionist-compulsive run, I got some assistance.

November 28, 2014, 02:48:32 AM
Reply #109

Offline Shinryu

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2014, 02:48:32 AM »
Quote from: "finisher"
Hey Shinryu, are you planning to make a complete playthrough recording so I can can turn to it if I get stuck finding hidden items, secrets, etc? :P (seriously, though, it's a compliment; I often look at your videos when trying to find hidden items I missed and can't find)

EDIT: Looks like that won't be necessary. Someone got on it seemingly ASAP and it's on youtube, heh. Well, if I ever get stuck in my completionist-compulsive run, I got some assistance.

Honestly, it's very debatable on whether or not I'll be doing a playthrough of this for now. I initially had a plan to do so, but after playing through the whole game...good lord, it's not going to be worth it. The game itself is tough, damn tough - but for all the wrong reasons. The levels are exceedingly difficult due to several cheap-shots and insane layouts, they stretch on for what feels like an eternity, and the checkpoints are even worse than the ones in the initial release of Mega Man Unlimited. After taking the time to get everything, there's barely any decent rewards (a boss rush, along with a 100 room challenge that's basically even more ridiculous level layouts).

If someone has already started doing a playthrough of it, I'm more than willing to bet it's one of the beta-testers. They can probably do a better job describing where everything is than I can, but a part of me feels some of the more evil aspects will get shoved under the rug at the same time. I'm half-way tempted to do my own playthrough if only for pointing out just how unnecessarily brutal and flawed this game is, despite a few decent ideas it has from time to time. To be honest though, I've played it so much at this point that I'm starting to get sick of it (especially that game over screen, which I've probably seen about 50+ times by now). I might settle down this month and play something decent instead...like Mega Man Christmas Carol. At least that game doesn't actively hate the player with every fiber of its being (unless you pick "wut" mode difficulty).

November 28, 2014, 03:35:30 AM
Reply #110

Offline finisher

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2014, 03:35:30 AM »
Yeah, really, whaddya know? The guy doing the run knows the author. Ah well, bottom line is it'll serve its purpose. And I'd have to agree with you: while I haven't played the game, common complaints with this fan game are that it's difficult due to frustration rather than challenge. IOW, the wrong reasons.

November 28, 2014, 02:58:40 PM
Reply #111

Offline Darkflamewolf

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2014, 02:58:40 PM »
Welp, I can't please everyone, esp. with the Megaman community having high expectations. Regardless, maybe I should have been upfront (even though I put out a lot of videos detailing how the gameplay would be like) about this not being a full 1:1 recreation of the core mechanics. My aim was to go for a Megaman & Bass style of difficulty with some Megaman 1 mixed in. Going in with that mentality might have been better.
The best part about fan games however, is that they can be changed and updated! So...Shinryu, since you seem to be the reigning expert here, I would actually like for you to see where I can improve. Where to move spikes, where to remove them. Where to place enemies, where to remove them. The overall structure of the levels and the core mechanics on a base level probably can't be changed at this point, so don't go looking for heavy changes there. HOWEVER, I am more than willing to tweak and edit the levels to a point where you feel it'd be fair or at least not as frustrating. So by all means, I'd love a laundry list to work by. Even Megaman Unlimited met with this criticism and later made up for it with some updates. The same can be applied here. This is a group effort and we can help tune/polish it up to something better/great!

So, yes, I am hearing you. Now what do we propose to do about this instead of gripe? Help me to help you play a better game. ^_^
Note: If you read any sort of negativity in this post, sorry, my humor can come off a bit harsh. But I assure you I'm not troubled in the slightest.

November 28, 2014, 06:07:39 PM
Reply #112

Offline Sn0w

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2014, 06:07:39 PM »
I believe after playing through this myself, I could add to your list of quirk, anomalies and frustrations, but I deign to approach this from a technical viewpoint instead.  The game was designed to push Mega Man gamers to the ultimate threshold of pain, just as Ninja Gaiden II for XBOX 360 did for that game series.  It's punishing, it's almost hateful sometimes, but then consider, Wily really must be sick of Mega Man altogether to drop this 50 ton weight on the Blue Bomber's head!  Just as Mega Man is most likely very sick of Doctor Wowie Reboots!  This game is like a VERY aggressive two-sided desperation move collision.  This game doesn't hate the player, it reveals the hate Mega and Wily have for each other after over a decade of nightmares.  

Some of the criticism made so far are a bit eccentric, too.  I do not mean to be rude, but, I feel the game designer wanted to pay homage to those Robot Masters that did not get resurrected in the game plot by including their tiles in the level design...such as Tornado and Wind tiles in a single stage.  In all honesty I believe most of the quirks are intentional.  The skating effect from running was removed intentionally.  Water density seems to be reduced intentionally.  And yes, Wily is trolling Mega start to finish.  Rush was after all only repaired with found-upgrades in the game's story, so, may have been tampered with or similarly damaged and quirky to explain why Rush cannot tolerate spikes.

I might be wrong, but, I enjoyed the game, personally, though some of those 50 kilometer long checkpoints got to me.....and trying to beat Wily and the Hidden Stage....ugh!  I'll be slide-dashing in me nightmares for a week.

November 28, 2014, 07:32:37 PM
Reply #113

Offline Shinryu

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #113 on: November 28, 2014, 07:32:37 PM »
Well, I'm at least glad to see the creator is taking interest in improving the game and keeping an open mind on criticism. While I do have quite a bit to say about nearly every stage and mechanic in the game, I'd like to keep this concise to the basic mechanics and certain aspects I noticed while playing. I ended up writing a lot more than I initially thought I would, so feel free to click the spoiler tag if you want to see my incredibly long analysis.

(click to show/hide)

November 28, 2014, 09:56:48 PM
Reply #114

Offline Darkflamewolf

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #114 on: November 28, 2014, 09:56:48 PM »
The checkpoints are something that are hard coded in the game unfortunately. We would have to overhaul the entire system to accommodate more which would set back a 1.2 release by quite a few months. We are two folks with busy lives that worked on this off and on, so I can't predict how long it would be to fix something like this. As it stands, there are two temporary midpoints and two permanent midpoints in each level...well at least all the main robot master stages minus Knight Man's stage, but that was intentional. I don't believe the Wily stages have used all the available midpoints, so at the very least I can check to see if I can add another checkpoint at the boss door. That's a quick fix for now until I can confer with Jman (my programmer) to see how rough it would be to overhaul to allow for more checkpoints. So there's that explanation.
The tanks you acquire to add up to permanent tanks in the main robot master stages will never go away. However, the tanks you acquire in the Wily Fortress stages are temporary and aren't saved into your game file. But it looks like it might be an oversight that they disappear on a game over which is probably where your issue of them disappearing comes in. I will again confer with Jman and see if there is anything to be done to rectify this so that tank pieces you get in the Wily stages aren't saved to your game file but are at least saved through your current play session regardless of Game Overs.
Your final concern with unfair deaths. I love your Tornado, Centaur and Knight man examples, (but Knight Man's stage was meant to be harder than most) but without a full laundry list of things I could/should change, I can only hazard a guess as to all the instances I need to fix. But I can at least look into the specific examples you mentioned now. Anything else?

November 28, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Reply #115

Offline Shinryu

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #115 on: November 28, 2014, 10:30:09 PM »
I didn't know the checkpoints were primarily due to engine limitations, but it's an interesting note that I can understand. It's clear there was some heavy modification to the original one (Mega Man Rocks), though I can't quite remember how the initial check-points in that game were laid out, I can understand that being a technical limitation.

As for anything else, I did actually encounter a few bugs that I wanted to point out. From what I understand, this game went under a ton of bug-testing before release, and for the most part I didn't encounter too many glitches while I was going through the game. There are a few minor things (and one potentially game-breaking thing) that I did find, though.

[Bug List]
(click to show/hide)

November 28, 2014, 10:37:57 PM
Reply #116

Offline Darkflamewolf

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #116 on: November 28, 2014, 10:37:57 PM »
Bug 1 & 2, those seem to stem from the same bug. I'll count those as one and the same since they both involve the same object: Rush Coil landing on a moveable object.
Bug 3, I thought we fixed this already! I guess not, we'll reattack this.
Bug 4, Don't do that? I checked again and it does show there should be a solid there, but I guess we never considered how megaman reacts when hitting a solid while sliding after coming off a sliding moveable object (the Yamato Spear) on a one-space wide ledge. Its so specific a bug we probably never tested for it! However, what did pull off brilliantly was the failsafe that should the player go outside the bounds at any time, you will die if you go too far off screen, this is to prevent the game hanging and players having to restart. Not sure how this one could be fixed. Not quickly anyhow, the collision system of Game Maker sucks arse, so this might just be left alone. I'm just glad the insta-death failsafe works in rare cases like this.

EDIT: Your tank issue: Are your PRIMARY tanks going down? There are mini-tanks and primary tanks. Which numbers are decreasing? If its primary and its only because of minitanks you've collected throughout the wily stages that have decreased then that is a problem. However, if its because of tanks you've received via points and getting bonuses from performing well, then those do go away and is normal behavior. Does that make sense?

EDIT 2: Bugs 1-3 are fixed, we're not going to officially touch 4 until we know further what we are dealing with. as for your tank issue, without further clarification, we're not sure where that's stemming from. Regardless, I am making a sweeping host of small changes and tweaks. In the GRAND scheme of things, the levels are not changing that much, however instances like you've described and multitudes others will be either gone or modified to be easier. So you may notice an easier time in those specific areas overall. I still like to keep my blistering difficulty, but without all the unfairness involved. And yes, we've figured out how to make more temp midpoints! There will always only be 3 permanent midpoints: beginning middle, and boss room. But we can add a few more temp ones in the middle...at least until a game over! Hopefully this will rectify some of those issues.

November 29, 2014, 05:28:21 AM
Reply #117

Offline Zero1000

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #117 on: November 29, 2014, 05:28:21 AM »
Does someone still has Hard Hat 3 on it's default settings and musics? Because i can't download it from the first post link and want to play it.

November 29, 2014, 06:42:12 AM
Reply #118

Offline Shinryu

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #118 on: November 29, 2014, 06:42:12 AM »
Quote from: "Darkflamewolf"
EDIT: Your tank issue: Are your PRIMARY tanks going down? There are mini-tanks and primary tanks. Which numbers are decreasing? If its primary and its only because of minitanks you've collected throughout the wily stages that have decreased then that is a problem. However, if its because of tanks you've received via points and getting bonuses from performing well, then those do go away and is normal behavior. Does that make sense?

I believe it was the primary tanks. The mini-tanks I collected stayed the same number (I believe it was 5), though my primary E-Tank count decreased from 3 to 1.

Quote from: "zero1000"
Does someone still has Hard Hat 3 on it's default settings and musics? Because i can't download it from the first post link and want to play it.

I checked, and it seems like Damaged Games' website is indeed down at the moment (though they've stated that they're currently in the process of moving to Tumblr). Doing a quick search, there seems to be a download for Hard Hat 3 on CNET. This also seems to hold true for the other games in the series. Until Damaged Games can get up and running again through new means, we'll probably have to settle for downloads from secondary sources when it comes to the Hard Hat series.

November 29, 2014, 11:51:26 AM
Reply #119

Offline Darkflamewolf

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Re: Mega Man Fan Game Collection Topic
« Reply #119 on: November 29, 2014, 11:51:26 AM »
Shinryu: Okay, the primary mini-tanks give you a permanent E-tank every 4, a permanent W-tank every 3, and a permanent M-tank for the 3 pieces you collect. Any extra mini-tanks you acquire in the Wily Fortress should also give you permanent tanks at those number intervals for that PLAY SESSION ONLY, and should remain even after a game over. Any extra tanks you receive via your point score value (50,000 intervals get you etanks, 100,000 intervals get you wtanks and the 500,000 interval gets you a mtank) are temporary and go away after a game over. This is normal behavior.

EDIT: Also, we are working on some wonky transition issues as a result of these new checkpoints. But hopefully we will have a release sometime tonight or tomorrow for 1.2! It won't nerf everything, but it will at least remove a lot of those unfair situations you spoke of. (although Knight Man's stage is a special case, its a hidden level that is meant to be harder than most, so I changed little in that stage, but I did change stuff!) With unfair situations removed and bad enemy placements removed along with one or two additional checkpoints as well as permanent boss door checkpoints for Wily, its a step in the right direction, yes?