[HOTFIX] - King Yamato's Classes Overhaul

[Shade Guy]

Argue with Roc and you've got to run the full marathon.

It's why he usually ends up winning

[Bikdark]

Argue with Roc and you've got to run the full marathon.

It's why he usually ends up winning

Other person refusing to rebut argument due to confusing post/confusing arguments =/= winning argument. He just doesn't supply straightforward responses, which is essential to arguing. The other person needs to actually understand you to see if there's things wrong with your argument.

[Chimera Man]

Argue with Roc and you've got to run the full marathon.

It's why he usually ends up winning

Other person refusing to rebut argument due to confusing post/confusing arguments =/= winning argument. He just doesn't supply straightforward responses, which is essential to arguing. The other person needs to actually understand you to see if there's things wrong with your argument.

Well... I just read what he said and I saw his point, even with my ADD.

Are you sure it's his problem? And not yours?

[Bikdark]

I understood it fine...after reading the entire post 40 times. It's also trying to cope with his insults as well as his thinking he's much better than you. It's annoying as hell, really :l

[Shade Guy]

You do not know how much I am tempted to reply wittily using your own post against you, but a thought occurs. This topic is about King Yamato's Classes. Since this argument has now boiled down to how you dislike intellectuality and big words, there is no longer any relevance in your posts to Classes.

Please move your childish personal commentary elsewhere.

[/acting like a mod]

[Myroc]

YD takes classes that are effective in their original forms and makes them ineffective. King Yamato's Mod is a result of Yellow Devil having zero input over the classes. Is desiring effective classes a "petty reason" or a "constant argument"? Does a grown man feel inclined to diminish the work of everything he touches? History repeats itself; people are not inclined toward change. If you want to visualize the results of a merge, do not base it on your petty ideals such as "greater good" or "grown men". Look at what has already happened with respect to YD taking control of other people's classes, and you generally find the same result: a diminish in quality.

Using the empirical examples above, I would reason that YD's mod is incapable of improving under YD's control. If you really saw where King Yamato is coming from, you'll see that King Yamato has no incentive to attach himself to a parasite.

That's it? You're unwilling to take YD's management of Classes seriously because of you being blindly fixated on what he's done in the past? Things change, Roc. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, sometimes not at all, sure, but focusing solely on what's happened previously just results in you looking like a blind shut-in, even by my standards. I expected better from someone such as you.

I can assure you that YD is a lot more open to ideas than he used to be. Hell, nowadays most of the class mechanics, tweaks, and changes are handled by the rest of the team, YD just implements stuff based on our argumentation and idea-pitching. Sure, he sneaks in some things himselves, but atleast he points it out to us, which allows us to judge whether or not it's a sound change or not.

Additionally, if a merge were to happen, and KY would still be largely ignored by YD (which the rest of the team would likely try to prevent), the community would know, and he would lose every sliver of respect he has earned. He couldn't afford to ignore him.

And really. You're trying to pitch to me the idea that KY's classes are a lot more effective? Some of them, sure, but for each gem I find in this mod I find an equally major flaw in another class. You are once again trying to pass off these classes as superior in mostly any way to YD's, and I won't have that.

[Shade Guy]

For each gem I find in this mod I find an equally major flaw in another class.

While I understand this is not the point of your post, it would really help to clarify further on which classes have flaws and what they are.

This goes for everyone else, too. Saying "these classes are unbalanced" without stating any reasons why is just plain stupid and gets you nowhere except further down my scale of respect.

[Myroc]

Fair enough then.

Being a mobility class most of all, having Bass freezed in place to fire his buster seems a little counter-productive. Rather minor, though.

Enker's alt was replaced by a simple melee, which also deals little to no damage at all, and is suspiciously hard to hit with. It might as well be nonexistant. Although him regenerating ammo slowly on his own has some merit to it, I'll admit.

Shadow Man is rather ridiculous in this version. It's basically a more coherent version of v1a's Shadow Man, which compared to the current YD one (even more so the one that's coming in the next version), isn't all that great. It seems now he currently has the slide and the smoke bomb just for the sake of having it.

The so-called "Needle Man idea" always has and always will be ridiculous. I was also made aware of by KY himself that he only added this because no one else suggested an alternative. I said this a long time ago and I'll say it again, Needle Man's playstyle was perfect as it is, the issue here was mostly a thing of numbers.

Doc Robot. A semi-rapid buster that randomly fires projectiles from all MM2 classes? An alt that equally spams random alts from those classes, including freaking Time Stopper? This is a completely luck-based class, and I'm trying to do away with luck-based things in classes.

Ring Man had his reverse ring-throw replaced with a bland melee sweep attack. The fact that this class was modified without seemingly taking into account the one who made the class also results in some slight irony, but that's rather irrelevant.

Centaur Man's galloping sound, while true to the games, is severely annoying, and also makes it rather impossible to stealth as him.

Is that enough flaws for you?

[Shmeckie]

Actually I think Doc Robot is fine as is. The random nature of him makes him unpredictable and fun to play, much like Gilgamesh in Dissidia Duodecim. The only thing I'd change would be dropping the rate of fire for his alt. Make the primary perfectly spammable, but give the alt more cooldown time.

And Shadow Man is fine as is, except that i do agree he should lose the smoke bomb. He has plenty of tools from his original appearance. He's not Bright Man or Skull Man, where he's a base carbon copy without the made-up attacks. Slide and Shadow Blade are fine. Even the invisibility's alright, I guess.

[Shade Guy]

Having played the KY Enker, one must keep in mind that he has a somewhat different playstyle to the one in Mainstream Classes. As Enker gains ammo from being damaged, Enker becomes a much more close range class. His altfire reflects this, and helps him do damage while waiting to get hit.

...Although, it does stop the passive ammo regen, which means you would probably end up doing more damage by not using your alt and instead waiting to get enough ammo. So your argument may have some merit there. However, it seems that Enker's passive ammo regen is too excessive at the moment (at least I think so), so that might be changed.

Also, I don't find his alt difficult to hit with, and I play with 300 ping on average.

[xColdxFusionx]

I understood it fine...after reading the entire post 40 times. It's also trying to cope with his insults as well as his thinking he's much better than you. It's annoying as hell, really :l

There are no words to describe how ironic this statement is.
Take a look in the mirror, bro. Your entire argument was one big shot at the community.

[? Manibogi ?]

Well, first of all, this mod is great and, in my opinion, better than YD's, however, I do have some things to complain about:

(click to show/hide)

Enker: For me, this is the only time I found YD's version better, not only is it more canon, but this version's stab is useless since it is short ranged, does low damage AND stops your charge.
Wood Man: The leaves seem to stack up, is that supposed to happen? If it is, I find it kinda OP.
Doc Robot: His fire rate should be slower, at least for his alt.
Shadow Man: I think his slide shouldn't consume energy.
Bright Man: His main's fire rate should be slower.
Pharaoh Man: I think he should fire 2 pharaoh waves when fully charged, maybe even 4 (weaker for both cases, of course).
Star Man: I find him kinda bland, but I can't think of anything to make him more unique.
Napalm Man: He should be able to fire 3 missiles with one bar, not 2.
Dark Man: He has no sound effects, why? Also I think his shield should fire in front and behind you (and it blocks his own shots, WTF?).
Centaur Man: His galloping is really annoying. Also, I found out that he has a 7-way spread shot, why not 8?

[Bikdark]

I understood it fine...after reading the entire post 40 times. It's also trying to cope with his insults as well as his thinking he's much better than you. It's annoying as hell, really :l

There are no words to describe how ironic this statement is.
Take a look in the mirror, bro. Your entire argument was one big shot at the community.

And since when is pointing out a flaw in how some people think a bad thing?

[Magnet Dood]

I've never thought it was a bad thing.

Let people be entitled to their own opinion.

[Korby]

Manibogi, 28 isn't divisible by 3.
You can wait a second and fire a third after firing two though.

In other news, I'm apparently the only person who likes Centaur's galloping.