[Map Pack] FMP2 (v1b)

[Knux]

Dude, Fyone. The sooner you post pics and do beta tests, the sooner you'll get feedback. Yeah necro post, whatever.

I myself am wondering what you've done until now, seeing as the time when you made glitchy stuff was quite a few months ago. Not saying you do now too, but that's up for debate.    Speaking of glitches, KCTF in Software aaaaaa

EDIT: What the fuck is up with the date!? I didn't post here recently!

[Fyone]

Bumped: Check first page for screenshots...

[Rozark]

These appear to certainly be an improvement over the last pack. I'm anticipating the second map/Pirate Ship, RIP Rozpack idea. It looks fun, can't wait to see how it is.

[Colonel ServBot]

I'm actually looking forward to the 3rd map. y'know, the boat one?

[Knux]

My opinions based on what I see in the screenshots:

Map 01 - It looks interesting with all the foliage. That's it.
Map 02 - Gyro Attack likes places with a lot of space. There's not much of that in the map, or there doesn't appear to be. Still, a pirate ship. Now there's something that hasn't been tried before. BME doesn't count. :B
Map 03 - I see Screw Crusher lying on the floor in a small hallway. Very bad idea. Make it harder to get.
Map 04 - Appears to be somewhat bland in texture usage, but this is still in progress, right? Cool concept, by the way.
Map 05 - I'm confused. Is it supposed to be a cave with two floors? Also, a tip: use the Drill Man textures in an indoor-outdoor manner. As in, use the lighter ones as if outside, and the darker ones as if inside. Not an obligation, but it might help the map look better.

[Fyone]

My opinions based on what I see in the screenshots:

Map 01 - It looks interesting with all the foliage. That's it.
Map 02 - Gyro Attack likes places with a lot of space. There's not much of that in the map, or there doesn't appear to be. Still, a pirate ship. Now there's something that hasn't been tried before.
Map 03 - I see Screw Crusher lying on the floor in a small hallway. Very bad idea. Make it harder to get.
Map 04 - Appears to be somewhat bland in texture usage, but this is still in progress, right? Cool concept, by the way.
Map 05 - I'm confused. Is it supposed to be a cave with two floors? Also, a tip: use the Drill Man textures in an indoor-outdoor manner. As in, use the lighter ones as if outside, and the darker ones as if inside. Not an obligation, but it might help the map look better.

Map 02 - I placed Gyro Attack in this map because Gyro Attack can change direction based on height which could help in this map. (I'll test it with another player just to be sure, but that was the intention)

Map 03 - Screw Crusher isn't a good enough weapon that people would work for to get (the outside of the cave is terrible for Screw Crusher    ).

Map 04 - I tried to keep the textures to only Dr. Wily textures (MM1-3) and Wood Man textures. This map was made a while ago so I may add some more Dr. Wily textures from other games.

Map 05 - Is a cave with two floors, I used the Drill Man Textures in an indoor-outdoor manner if the scenario made sense. (i.e. For one of the screenshots I was trying to show that it was two floors, bottom floor was more covered in bright red crystal because it's deeper. The other screenshot that I did has it opposite lighter to darker for the same reasoning) This wasn't done in the majority of the map, but I did use it in some places. This map I only used Drill Man textures as well.

[Knux]

Map 03 - Screw Crusher isn't a good enough weapon that people would work for to get (the outside of the cave is terrible for Screw Crusher.

I have to disagree. Screw Crusher is an area of denial weapon, and in small passages, it can be spammed to... well, DENY access. This might limit most of the fighting to the outside area (unless everyone wants to spam it in the cave).

I'm aware that KCTF03 has this problem, and it will be changed for the next version. Yeah, ironic, but true.

[Fyone]

Well just to be safe, I'll take Screw Crusher out of the map all together.

[Knux]

I took some pictures of what I want to talk about, but I'm tired, so I'll just talk about them.   Eh, maybe some pics.

Pirate Ship - I thought it was a small, decent map to play in. You could get something other than a Wave Man background on the skybox as it might not fit with a ship that's made of wood, but that's just nitpicking.

Treehouse - You should have anti-camping weapons in the map that can be shot into the treehouse to prevent camping. Crystal Eye and Danger wrap are good options. Then there's this area:

(click to show/hide)

Try having a step or two in there. Getting caught in that passage would probably be quite unpleasant.

I didn't notice the wall teleporter for a while. Why not just make it a floor one with the same effect? It's more noticeable that way.

Cliff Mount 2 - The main problems here are the long ass hallways and platforming outside. Try to shorten the running distance as this will also make some weapons in the map worth getting. Instead of having small steps, just add stairs. It would be fine in Co-op, but this is DM, and the time it takes to platform can be a luxury sometimes. Finally, you have weapons (Ballade Cracker) that need said platforming to get, and Rush Jet in the middle. That just looks... wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the main things here are the marathon hallways.

On the plus side, it looks like a pretty damn cool concept for a map remake. It just needs some polishing.

Wily/Wood Man map - Avoid dead ends like the black plague of doom. Rush Coil at a dead end hallway just makes it all worse. Just lower that floor and add ladders or something. Speaking of having paths to get around, I suggest opening one up in here. Look where the Item 1 is:

(click to show/hide)

You also have one blue line texture spammed on the insides. Try other things! Decorate! I saw you were already trying it with the purple pipes at the entrance, and I encourage you to keep going.

I also suggest you change that music to something else for now. It sounds kinda bad, if you ask me. I looked up covers for that Power Fighters battle, but nothing appeared.

Drill Man map - The layout seems alright, but the cave area looks kind of bland. However, my main gripe is those black entrances. Why not just link the whole map? Don't worry if the hole above might not make sense. MM5CRY never did, anyway, and no one cared because it's a game and they were too busy having fun.

Overall, I say you've improved your mapping, but you still have some things to learn. The music was quite a step up from FMP1, but there's some room for improvement there as well. I'm no composer though, so I'll let someone else critique that more in depth.

[Rozark]

Short but Sweet: Overall you've improved your mapping skills, but these maps still look.. off. Each map poses its own set of problems that could take a few tweaks and it would be playable. Read that sentence twice.

[Fyone]

I took some pictures of what I want to talk about, but I'm tired, so I'll just talk about them.   Eh, maybe some pics.

Pirate Ship - I thought it was a small, decent map to play in. You could get something other than a Wave Man background on the skybox as it might not fit with a ship that's made of wood, but that's just nitpicking.

:I

Treehouse - You should have anti-camping weapons in the map that can be shot into the treehouse to prevent camping. Crystal Eye and Danger wrap are good options. Then there's this area:

(click to show/hide)

Try having a step or two in there. Getting caught in that passage would probably be quite unpleasant.

^ Already fixed in the next version.

I didn't notice the wall teleporter for a while. Why not just make it a floor one with the same effect? It's more noticeable that way.

I don't think it is possible to make floating floor teleporters so I did a wall one. If you know how let me know.

Cliff Mount 2 - The main problems here are the long ass hallways and platforming outside. Try to shorten the running distance as this will also make some weapons in the map worth getting. Instead of having small steps, just add stairs. It would be fine in Co-op, but this is DM, and the time it takes to platform can be a luxury sometimes. Finally, you have weapons (Ballade Cracker) that need said platforming to get, and Rush Jet in the middle. That just looks... wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the main things here are the marathon hallways.

I will add stairs for the small steps but the big steps I will keep. The long hallways inside the cave are already fixed, the hallways outside I simply shortened the distance a bit. The platforming I put in the map were only to add shortcuts or to acquire good weapons. The Rush Jet will be moved to a harder to reach area I don't how I put the Rush Jet in the middle <_> tbh

On the plus side, it looks like a pretty damn cool concept for a map remake. It just needs some polishing.

Wily/Wood Man map - Avoid dead ends like the black plague of doom. Rush Coil at a dead end hallway just makes it all worse. Just lower that floor and add ladders or something. Speaking of having paths to get around, I suggest opening one up in here. Look where the Item 1 is:

(click to show/hide)

You also have one blue line texture spammed on the insides. Try other things! Decorate! I saw you were already trying it with the purple pipes at the entrance, and I encourage you to keep going.

^ Already fixed in the next version

I also suggest you change that music to something else for now. It sounds kinda bad, if you ask me. I looked up covers for that Power Fighters battle, but nothing appeared.

Because this song used a different style (i.e. Less instruments, echo) Some people liked this song more than the others but some thought it was the worst as well. I was going to expand on the song but I actually lost the original ftm file.

Drill Man map - The layout seems alright, but the cave area looks kind of bland. However, my main gripe is those black entrances. Why not just link the whole map? Don't worry if the hole above might not make sense. MM5CRY never did, anyway, and no one cared because it's a game and they were too busy having fun.

I would link the whole map if I could but if I were to, it would require lots of 3D floo- Actually I will do it in the next version... . I know that MM5CRY never made sense but I don't see how my map would not make sense if it was linked unless you when you say link you mean something else?

Overall, I say you've improved your mapping, but you still have some things to learn. The music was quite a step up from FMP1, but there's some room for improvement there as well. I'm no composer though, so I'll let someone else critique that more in depth.

Thanks for the feedback.

@Rozark: Are you implying that these maps are unplayable? Not sure what you mean by "set of problems". And I don't see why you want me to read the sentence twice. Please elaborate.

[Rozark]

Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

[Fyone]

Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.

[Rozark]

Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.
It feels like Hotel Gumballtoid. A great map, but it isn't great for DM.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.
This should tell you that your layout for this map doesn't feel right. I told it to you bluntly twice now.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.
The map is only smaller because that cave thing? is gone. Sure, you might've shrunk one side, but you wrapped that portion around the entire map, making it the same size if not bigger than the last version. This map is still too huge.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.
Too much space, not enough filler. No, random filler won't count. The interior is just awkward, while the exterior (forest area) appears fine? :I

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.
Amazing story. Anywho, go look at MM5CRY and learn how to make "Transitioning Floors". It probably feels awkward because of all the unneeded filler/ammo placements/weapon placements/unneeded diagonals on the pointless filler.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.

Some of this red is simply myself restating what i've already said. I put the note "Read twice" for a reason. :I

[Fyone]

Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.
It feels like Hotel Gumballtoid. A great map, but it isn't great for DM.
Hotel GBT has large hallways, wide-open swimming pool, cramped rooms, cramped bathrooms, and wide-open parking; I don't see how that's like my map.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.
This should tell you that your layout for this map doesn't feel right. I told it to you bluntly twice now.
Well, feels good to me. You need to give me an explanation why it doesn't feel right.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.
The map is only smaller because that cave thing? is gone. Sure, you might've shrunk one side, but you wrapped that portion around the entire map, making it the same size if not bigger than the last version. This map is still too huge.
There was never a cave thing in the old map, I believe you're mixing it up with something else. And again this map is smaller than the previous so unless you're saying you want me to shrink the other one too.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.
Too much space, not enough filler. No, random filler won't count. The interior is just awkward, while the exterior (forest area) appears fine? :I
Please explain what you mean by "random filler". Also, in the next version the interior room with the H. Knuckle will have more variety in the ground leveling.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.
Amazing story. Anywho, go look at MM5CRY and learn how to make "Transitioning Floors". It probably feels awkward because of all the unneeded filler/ammo placements/weapon placements/unneeded diagonals on the pointless filler.
Please explain what you mean by "Transitioning Floors" and MM5CRY is camping-mania; what would I learn from that? Can you give me an example of what you mean by "pointless filler"? And I also need to know where is the unneeded ammo, weapons, etc.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.

Some of this red is simply myself restating what i've already said. I put the note "Read twice" for a reason. :I
You seem to miss the point of what I said, you didn't explain your feelings much better from last time either. Please don't restate again saying "I don't like the 'feeling', too 'awkward'" Give me reasons and an explanation why you feel that way.