Megaman Unlimited

[Hallan Parva]

Revolution's music went a new turn and made their songs a little more unique than just the same old Mega Man style music. It almost sounds like it came out of Konami, or even Sunsoft at times. I could NEVER get Light's Lab out of my head, and it was just there for the entire night.

I know I plug the shit out of this but if you like Revolution's music you'll love the soundtrack of Mega Man's Hyperball, considering Revolution is basically "Hyperball 2" with the references to the first game. The Wily stages, boss battle, Dr. Light's lab, even the character select song are de-mixed Hyperball songs made over in Famitracker.

Personally I also love how Wily's theme is used in various tempos and remixes through the entire game (the 8 Robot Masters cutscene, the game over music, the Wily Castle map jingle, Wily's fight himself). Actually, Light's Lab during the 8 Robot Masters cutscene is still my favorite Wily theme remix in the entire game. It's amazing.

The only thing I wish was ported from Hyperball that wasn't... was the theme for Hyperball's Final Final Boss. Seriously. It's so good.

[NemZ]

What are you talking about? I personally think Revolution was really the winner, just think about it.
- Unlimited gives players a really unfair challenge at times, and it just isn't suited for everyone which makes the game a little unbeatable.
- Revolution, on the other hand, provides a rather fair challenge that only really gets to the dick part when you hit Haste Man's stage. If you seriously cannot get past those saws at the beginning of Saw Man's stage, I'm sorry but I feel bad for you because that's one of the easiest things of the entire game.

I think it's quite the reverse.  Unlimited is hard, but fair and engaging.  Revolution is mostly boring and easy, but occationally has stupid spikes of difficulty for no reason.  The saw jump has to be very precise, much more demanding than most spike drops because the hit boxes on those blades are larger than they appear.  Making it through that gap consistantly is something I can't do, but something like unlimited's wily 3 with gravity-spinning spike fall hallways I can go through with little difficulty.

And like I said, I've beaten both games, including both charecters on revolution.  I'm not some whining scrub.

I have no idea at all how anyone can possibly thing Revolution had better sound or graphics.  Revolution was simply BAD in both categories, while Unlimitted could easily pass for official and IMHO beats several of the actual games as well.  Revolution is even lower on that list than SFxMM, which was mostly crap.

Though I haven't actually played a whole lot of Unlimited

...and this is why you shouldn't be talking.  You're obviously just fanboy gushing about Revolution based on past experience with the same designers.

[tsukiyomaru0]

What are you talking about? I personally think Revolution was really the winner, just think about it.
- Unlimited gives players a really unfair challenge at times, and it just isn't suited for everyone which makes the game a little unbeatable.
- Revolution, on the other hand, provides a rather fair challenge that only really gets to the dick part when you hit Haste Man's stage. If you seriously cannot get past those saws at the beginning of Saw Man's stage, I'm sorry but I feel bad for you because that's one of the easiest things of the entire game.

I think it's quite the reverse.  Unlimited is hard, but fair and engaging.  Revolution is mostly boring and easy, but occationally has stupid spikes of difficulty for no reason.  The saw jump has to be very precise, much more demanding than most spike drops because the hit boxes on those blades are larger than they appear.  Making it through that gap consistantly is something I can't do, but something like unlimited's wily 3 with gravity-spinning spike fall hallways I can go through with little difficulty.

And like I said, I've beaten both games, including both charecters on revolution.  I'm not some whining scrub.

I have no idea at all how anyone can possibly thing Revolution had better sound or graphics.  Revolution was simply BAD in both categories, while Unlimitted could easily pass for official and IMHO beats several of the actual games as well.  Revolution is even lower on that list than SFxMM, which was mostly crap.

Though I haven't actually played a whole lot of Unlimited

...and this is why you shouldn't be talking.  You're obviously just fanboy gushing about Revolution based on past experience with the same designers.

Your Mileage May Vary

Plus, Revolution was modeled after Mega Man and Bass, which gave its difficult a REASON behind it.
Unlimited? Nope. The music and general art of Revolution was also inspired by Mega Man and Bass, as well as the traditional NES style, but going breaking the sound limit for obvious reason.

Also, Recolution has an updater attached, which allows you to check and apply updates in one click. Unlimited? Nope!

And Fanboyism is EXACTLY what you are doing, overglorifying Unlimited without acknowledging its flaws. Revolution is perfect? No, but it is a little known dev trying to do his best and trying to listen to everyone. Unlimited is perfect? No, but it is a development group or single dev that now has to correct everything after making everyone wait for the full version. SFxMM is perfect? No, but it has taken the same route as Unlimited.

So, who is the best developer? The one who gradually gathers feedbacks as development goes, along with demos on the way?
Or the one who releases teasers before a full game, only getting feedback from the full game?

Think. Think on how the former scenario is akin to how Minecraft went. On how the later is akin to various big comapnies games.

[Hallan Parva]

I posted this in my stream thread so some of the wording applies directly to event planning, but overall I feel like the general "message" still applies excellently to this thread. I'm going to warn you ahead of time, I dropped so many F-Bombs even Jet Man would feel ashamed at his tiny missile arsenal. This isn't Suitable For Beed28 in the slightest but I just need to vent, and hopefully someone out there shares my sentiments.


Enjoy.

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... I know I said I'd be doing Revolution after Unlimited, but after talking about it I sort of want to play MegaMari again.


The thing is, Unlimited really isn't that hard. Once you know everything you can reduce the stages down to a science. The thing is, if you even fuck up in the tiniest of ways, the game usually makes you pay for it with either instant death or eight points of bloody contact damage. It's not making mistakes that pushes the game to insane levels of bullshit, it's that you can't afford to make one mistake without having to restart the entire fucking segment. If I wanted to run the game perfectly, I would have called it a Perfect Run. Designing a fan game for a series built entirely around switching weapons, multiple paths, and exploring what works versus certain bosses and enemies and what doesn't work... and then making it so that if you don't know exactly what to do, the game grinds Mega Man's fucking robotic dong up and down against a cheese grater so your health bar falls down faster than someone on Rush Jet in a server with SaviorSword abusing Gravity Hold... yeah, that's just poor design.

I will agree that Revolution is pretty forgiving until the Wily stages (which is why I'm leaning more towards MegaMari at this point) but at least Revolution gave you the freedom to play around and figure out a stage on your own instead of throwing a grilled spikes sandwich at you, sliding the plate down the bar diner-style. On the contrary, I rather enjoy challenging games. I like the feeling of triumph from getting past an obstacle after twenty failures. I like bosses that honestly scare the shit out of me with their attacks, and I like finally destroying said bosses once I figure out their pattern isn't so bad. Unfortunately, Unlimited lacked that sense of accomplishment, at least for me personally. When I beat Trinitro Man's stage, I didn't say "Alright! I did it!" Everyone who watched the stream would know it was more along the lines of "Finally. Now I won't have to stare at this fucker's shit-brown tileset ever again." It's not the length of the stages or the placement of the enemies or even the over-reliance on gimmicks to force each stage to be unique. It's the lack of elbow room for making mistakes, and we're all human here so there's going to be a few mistakes on our part even when we think we've got the stage cracked apart.

This is why I enjoy playing MegaMari. On paper, the thought of making an action-platformer like Mega Man into a bullet hell sounds like the most sadistic shit in any existing universe, known or unknown. Then you go through a stage, you switch between Marisa's pellet shots and Alice's shield-piercing laser, you pick up a weapon, you pick up another weapon, now you feel like the king of kong, know right from wrong, you're gonna slap Robo-Patchy right in the dong. I'm not going to mince words here: MegaMari is balls-twistingly difficult and it's not a game everyone would enjoy. I made more than my fair share of mistakes while playing and the game over theme was all-but-ingrained into my memory. However, I still felt motivated to get up, dust off Marisa's hat, fix the ribbons in Alice's hair, and start the stage over again.

There are a shitload of bullets and that's to be expected seeing as how it's a Touhou fan game and all, but even when I was being literally peppered by shots, each bullet only dealt about two or three damage. That's the way it should be. There were still spikes and bottomless pits and death bombs and the infamous Patchouli Beams (she's been talking with Quick Man too much) but even still they all felt fair and avoidable, if I moved fast enough or if I cleared that rabbit from that platform or if I pussied out and used the Broom Jet I could still get around it. Unlimited's design substituted genuine difficulty for "fake challenge". Few things in Unlimited actually gave me problems, but the rare issue I came across with ended up dealing 8 fucking damage or had twice the normal hitstun and knocked me into a pit or just instagibbed me outright, and that's simply not fun. What's the point in feeling awesome through most of the stage if that fucking Platypressor at the end just rapes you in ten seconds, and with the shitty checkpoint placement you have to slog through half the stage again in what can only be described as Satan and Wily's 500K Castration Marathon.

To be fair, even the end of the fucking game pulls that shit. You get through the torture of NINE mini-stages, fight the Robot Masters, somehow avoid losing all of your lives to make it to yet another mini-stage, spank Bass in his hind quarters, defeat the Wily Chin Machine, go Ghetto Vile up on Wily's ride armor, and finally make it to the skull behind the skull. The final stage. The last chapter in the MegaPhil's masochistic torture chamber. You've stopped the crystals with Glue Shot, you've abuse the shit out of Comet Dash, you've absorbed countless bullets with Nail Shield, you've realized Trinitro Blast is utter crap, you've seen the beauty and glory known as Yoku Man... you've done it. The final battle is about to go down and Mega Man Unlimited might actually end on a positive note.

... Well holy shit on a stick, let's rob you of that too. Here, have an unwinnable boss fight. At the end of the game. Because FUCK. YOU.

Even in a tough game like MegaMari, you still stand a fair chance at any given moment. If you get through most of the stage perfectly, chances are that you'll do well against a midboss or even against the end boss. At no point in the game do I remember losing a third of my health to a single hit in MegaMari; better performance through a stage usually means better performance against the boss. With Unlimited I hardly even care to take my time and just zerg rushed through the later stages simply because of the bullshit damage levels each boss was capable of throwing at your general direction. If I had perfect health made no impact versus me missing five or six units of my health, since I'd still die in four hits regardless. Sure, you can buy E-Tanks for a small price, but you shouldn't have to burn an E-Tank in a normal Robot Master fight. Even MegaMari acknowledges that; powerful attacks come one or two at a time, whereas the danmaku hell Touhou fans adore does minimal damage at best. There's no shop to get tanks from, and actually finding a tank is a rare and impressive feat. MegaMari had me look up, down, and sideways for those glorious Mushroom Tanks; with Unlimited I ended up passing over E-Tanks and W-Tanks simply because it was easier to spend bolts to get them instead of waste a life trying to grab it, knowing that in the very likely event of me fucking up I'd have to replay a good half of the stage all over again.

So yeah, fuck Unlimited. Fuck it up the ass. Fuck it hard and fuck it dry. Fuck it until it begs for mercy. I am so unbelievably tired of that game and if anyone has a better Mega Man game or fan game for me to play, I'll snatch that shit up in a nanosecond.

[NemZ]

Plus, Revolution was modeled after Mega Man and Bass, which gave its difficult a REASON behind it.

Aside from putting Bass in the game (which has happened multiple times now), in what possible way is this modeled after megaman and bass?

Also, Recolution has an updater attached, which allows you to check and apply updates in one click. Unlimited? Nope!

So?  It's not like it's difficult to google a website and click download.

And Fanboyism is EXACTLY what you are doing, overglorifying Unlimited without acknowledging its flaws.

Uh... Nope?  I'm guessing you haven't read my previous posts at all.

Unlimited has stupidly long stages with bad checkpoint placement and an overreliance on cheap deaths.  The RM's are generally Meh.  The story is obvious and stupid with very several very poor cutscene illustrations and the music outside of stages mostly blows, which is especially annoying as they are bugged to show up over and over again if your kill totals are at 4 or 8.  The final stage should have been left out entirely, as it's just a horrible idea.  The 1/4 etanks are stupid.  Protoman and Bass are both WAY too easy even with buster only.  The inclusion of Shampoo was pointless and dumb.  Finally, MegaPhilX just seems like kind of a douchebag to me the way he puts his name just EVERYWHERE.

And it's still miles better than Revolution.

[Superjustinbros]

if anyone has a better Mega Man game or fan game for me to play, I'll snatch that shit up in a nanosecond.

I'd recommend Fegaman vs. the World to you, but it's difficulty is really up there (and it also shares a few problems, at least in my perspective) with Unlimited. All it'd serve to do is show how batshit crazy a Mega Man clone could go.

[Shadow Blade]

Here's my take on the game, text wall ahoy!

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At first I had mixed feelings about the game, it kicked my ass HARD when I first tried it. I was mad, I was angry how I kept dying to every boss. But I refused to give up. I kept trying and finally beat the bosses. And I ENJOYED IT. Yes Rainbow Man and his laser filled hell can go burn in the deepest fires of Robot Hell... but I liked the other stages. I felt accomplished slowly demolishing the Robot Masters with their weaknesses or just pelting them to death with the Pew Pew Buster. I had a good time with the Wily Stages. and the boss rush. I felt great when I finally took down Wily's old ass. I wasn't even mad when Zero showed up. I mean besides with the not "technically" canon fighting game, the classic series never really REFERENCES Zero. I was briefly bothered by not being able to hurt him at least, but to be honest.... would Megaman really have stood a chance against Zero? If Zero was complete Classic wouldn't have stood a chance in hell. Yes I would have much prefered if it went like this "Zero could only be damaged at certain points or with a certain weapon, and when you hit him enough the battle just ends with Zero nearly finishing megaman with a charged attack or suddenly breaking down, you get close and then Zero takes you by surprise, slicing off Megaman's buster arm before promptly breaking down." That way even though you were "defeated" you could still walk away with some victory in all of this. I will add more to this eventually.

Also if anyone knows where I can find those Megaman Unlimited avatars that would be great.

[NemZ]

so, easy mode is indeed rather easy, probably on par with MM4 while the original is at least as difficult as MM9.  

At times the added 'safety blocks' actually got in the way though, forcing new strategies to navigate a particular couple of screens.

[Oliver]

Maded to Tankman.    ...But i must say, his Tank Arsenal is pretty powerful.  

[TheDoc]

O my gosh that avatar

Anyways, here's the download page for convenience

[LlamaHombre]

I suppose I'll give my real opinion about it should it ever be released.

Alright, fine. I'll keep my thoughts in three sections, the last of which will be filled to the brim with spoilers. Note that I'm judging this game based on it's initial release and not on the updated version with an easy mode.

Gameplay:

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If I'm going to praise this game I may as well talk about the engine. For the most part it's a flawless recreation of the classic games with its smooth jump arc, solid platforming (to an extent), and it just overall manages to contain the feel of the classics loads better than any fangame out there. There's some hiccups I have with the up button sometimes (mainly around ladders) but it's nothing too particularly glaring and I'm always willing to accept a couple of shortcomings if the overall game pleased me. Having a lives count below the health bar is so simple yet so helpful, allowing me to base my upcoming strategies based on a quick look to my life bar rather than having to check the menu beforehand. As a whole, Unlimited has a very solid engine.

First Half:

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The beginning starts off kinda rough, like you'd expect from any other Mega Man game. The only problem is, this game feels as if it's actively fighting against the player's will to progress. Stages are filled to the brim with multiple and plentiful sources of instant death, oftentimes directly in your path and near impossible to scout out on a first playthrough. Other times, it's a stage filled with boring hallways which in turn are filled with loads of enemies that are both difficult to deal with and deal a huge hole of your health bar. You need lots of lives if you want to make it to a boss on your first playthrough, as a single mistake can send you back 20+ screens. This leads into two other very important complaints. The stages are too long, and there's not enough checkpoints. Either of those complaints on their own are baseless. Long stages can be lots of fun and can be a great way to explore multiple gimmicks while not sandwiching them together. Having too many checkpoints can make the game almost yawn-inducing, making old challenges forgettable and newer challenges not nearly as threatening. Long stages with few checkpoints can just drag on forever. You're forced to repeat sections loads of times for oftentimes no good reason other than "oh XD you didn't see my cunning yoku spike trap!! lol." Even legitimately cool stages like Tank Man can be placed in a poor light when you suddenly get squashed by a sniper joe after the miniboss "dies" and you're sent back 15 screens to the beginning of the level. When you understand the layouts of the stages and can reasonably traverse them with few deaths, the game becomes relatively simple and you can breeze through it with just slightly more effort than you would something like Mega Man 7 and onwards. The bosses are pretty cool in concept, but every boss doing 8 fucking contact damage is just not particularly fair at all, especially when you consider that the only bosses who can't get from Point A to Point B in two seconds are Tank Man and Trinitro Man. The weapons are well diversed and for the most part very impressive. My only real complaints would be that Trinitro's weapon is a piece of shit and that there isn't an option for dealing with enemies directly above or directly below you when there's scenery in the way.

Second Half (Spoilers):

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I hate Mega Man 2. The bosses can be downright unfair at times with retarded patterns, ridiculous damage outputs, jumps that are trickier than they need to be, etc. The stages with the exception of Metal Man are bland with very little variety in terms of color, enemies, structure, design, theme, etc. Some stages are literally just walking forward, occasionally stopping when there are pits about. There are scenarios that requires exploits to get around, or ungodly luck and/or timing. There's fuckloads of grinding to patch up your Item2 or Crash Bomb just because you jumped awkwardly and missed. The music is good, but muddled by shitty sound design or instrument composition. Do you know the sad part about all this? I could apply 94% of this exact same shit to Unlimited. The game takes a huge nosedive the instant you step into Wily 1. The stage is the apparently obligatory "Rush Jet stage". I should mention it's the worst I've ever seen. The game changes its terrain way too often for you to anticipate what is your next direction. Rush being just a pixel too low will result in him leaving you to die, forcing you to redo the first 40% of the stage because the game was too fucking stingy to think about giving you a checkpoint. You make it through this time, and barely even ten screens later here's another rush jet segment. You're given some ammo beforehand so there's no big mess of not having enough fuel. But oh, damn it, you died. Back down to after the first Rush Jet segment for you. A minute later, you make it back to the second rush jet segment. You make it through this time, but you get caught off guard by the sudden screen transition and you fall to your death. Here's the kicker. It warps you back to the beginning of the second rush jet section. You've already been there twice beforehand, why did it only count this time? Whatever, let's just make it through again. You switch to your rush jet and you stare in horror as you realize that you don't have enough fuel to reach even one platform. You cannot go back. You cannot grind for fuel. Unless you're willing to burn a W-Tank (if you even have one), it's time to turn the game off and start again from the beginning. Okay, I'll just burn my one W-Tank I have left and go fight the boss. You get to the boss and you're OHKO'd by a combination of a weak projectile, a hitstun, and a pit placed immediately behind the 1 block platform on which you were standing. You're warped back to the beginning of the platform. No more rush jet fuel. No more W-Tanks. You lose. This is where I stopped. This is where I lost it. This is where I ragequit for a while, only to pick the game up several days later and actually prevail. Wily 2 and 3 are actually pretty cool in structure (though Wily 2's boss is almost as downright unbearable as Wily 1's), and they have some pretty good music. This is actually starting to redeem itself in it's own little niche way. That's when I saw the next stage and it only demanded that I never think highly of this game again. The boss rush is filled to the brim with instant death. Wily 4 is a personification of every stage beforehand. Unbeatable on a first playthrough. It pulls so many sucker punches and dick moves that it's just becomes tedious at certain points. And you haven't even fought the bosses yet. If you enter any boss with low health and fuck up even once, you put yourself in falling towards more cases of instant death. When you beat the boss rush, you're placed into a battle with Bass that's not very memorable and ridiculously predictable. I suppose after sitting through 9 ministages each with their own boss at the end, I deserve a pretty easy bridge to the final boss. Then I saw Wily and I knew I was kidding myself. Wily's machine takes up the entire screen and has so many different ways of snapping your back in two and having its way with you. Many of these attacks you'd have no idea how to dodge on a first playthrough, nevertheless when you're desperate at 1 life and 1 E-Tank. To make it worse, Wily has a second form. A second form with an attack that will always hit you if you don't have enough ammo of the fastest draining weapon in the game. This sounds familiar. You beat Wily and move on to Wily 5. At this point, you're so fed up of Wily's everlasting bullshit that the only thing you want to do is kick his ass. You have a solid retry point and regardless of whether he has one weakness or not you're ready to demolish him. The boss gates going downward only spicen your temper as you know that Wily's going to pull out all the stops. And by god, you're ready for whatever he plans on throwing at you. You finally reach him, with this machine hanging from the ceiling. It cracks on its own will and you see the prototype for Zero bust out. Fuck yeah, what better way of taking revenge to Wily after an entire game of nonsense by beating his most powerful robot senseless!? Buster's not working, okay let's just switch weapons, oh that's not working either, next, no, next, no, next, E-Tank, no, next, no, next, Eddie, no, next, no!?, NEXT!? I sat there after Yoku Attack only managed to deal damage to me, twitchy, nervous, and on the brink of explosion. Zero rips off my arm. He sits down. Why. Wily picks the bastard up and leaves the fortress to just blow up. I regain control and my only thought process at that time was "ok, this is just hyping me up for the final boss." I regain my health and plow through the rest of the stage, and when I get through that final boss door, I stared at the screen. Mega Man plopped over. That was it. There was no final boss. There was no way for me to vent out what previous frustration I had at the game. There was no Dual Wily Capsule to pump full of Chill Spike. There was no leader of Shadoloo to overthrow with the mascot's weapon. There was no giant fucking T-Rex that would put me in a taste of panic trying to beat him. The final boss never happen. At the end of the credits, I was done. This game shat in my face consistently, never really gave me a sense of accomplishment, and when it was all over, it didn't even try to give me a final boss to give me a good last impression. At least Mega Man 2 gave me an alien. A fake alien that was weak to Bubbles. At least it was there. A simple yet tense boss battle to leave a good taste in my mouth after I had suffered through MM2DW4. Not here. Why would they?

[NemZ]

That 'attack that will always hit you'?  try using your buster.

And a lot of these complaints were mitigated in the new version.  wily1 and 5 are still bullshit though.

[-FiniteZero-]

I just beat the game. (On easy, of course. I'm not very good at Mega Man.)

I like it enough.

[FTX6004]

Wait is easy mode out now! i gotta play it right now.

[Geno]

IS it me?


Or does Comet Woman look a bit like a female Terra?