Ghouls vs Humans NES

[tsukiyomaru0]

Pretty much every class is overpowered actually. It's just that Sjas and Yurei are two of the most notable ones. Also Sjas is annoying as heck, OP or not, to deal with.

On the humans side, the most OP has to go to Ghost Buster.

I don't think you clearly read what I wrote. Humans have long range weapons, the ghouls don't and they need to stick to you to hit you. With their advantage the human team can just run and shoot to keep the ghouls at bay.

This is what breaks Ghostbuster:

Code: [Select]

Line #463 - PACK D 2 A_FireCustomMissile("GhostbusterBall", 0, 1, 8, 3)
Line #464 - PACK D 2 A_FireCustomMissile("GhostbusterBall", 0, 0, 8, 3)


[SmashTheEchidna]

I did read it. What I'm saying is that both sides are OP. Sure the humans all have long ranged weapons, but certain ghouls have invisibility. If they stand completely still no one can see them. Even when they're moving they still have some invisibility. I've seen a single Yurei take down more than half a full team (about 5-6 people) alone. Sjas can fly, really fast. He's really annoying to hit, and has an AOE attack. And like you demonstrated earlier today in the server, he can be used to stall matches for a ludicrous amount of time. Of course, Cacodemon can do this too, but considering how much slower he moves it's not nearly as bad.

Marine's weapons can be pretty OP too. Cyborg is a tank, and the hunter has railgun arrows. Ghostbuster's Proton pack can do up to 90 damage per second, with the average max HP being 100. Heck, Megaman is the only one on the human side who ISN'T OP in some way.

All in all, everyone needs some form of balancing. People complain about Sjas more because people tend to have up to 5 of them on the ghouls team, and that gets annoying fast.

EDIT: Freaking ninjas. Well whatever, they helped prove my point.

[Korby]

Reidakk, that is literally the entire point of the mod.

As a Ghoul, you're supposed to stalk your foe and strike at the correct moment, like a monster in a monster movie.

As a Human, you're supposed to run for your life.

[Laggy Blazko]

What Korby said.

Also, I'd say megaman needs a buff instead of nerfing everyone else.

[Knux]

Reidakk, that is literally the entire point of the mod.

As a Ghoul, you're supposed to stalk your foe and strike at the correct moment, like a monster in a monster movie.

As a Human, you're supposed to run for your life.

Considering how he was talking about not understanding why people whine about it, I think he acknowledges that quite well.

[Duora Super Gyro]

Iv always thought of the game being based around teamwork, the Ghouls stalk the humans and use classes like sjas and frostbite to flush them out and distract them while creeper and yurie follow behind and take down humans with more stealth, while humans stick together and use their abilities to hold a safe location until they atleast know what their up against or until its safe to head in and take out the last remaining ghouls.

but thats just me though, i only play creeper and marine.

[Ceridran]

Well, yeah, as we all know, Creeper is too easy to see, probably too slow, he's quiet.
Ghostbuster needs to be dealt with as we all know.
Caco probably needs a new lunge or something.
Choke leaves behind beat wings with blood ball.

Although I'm probably not helping because we all already knew this stuff.

[Knux]

Personally, I like Caco as it is. It really doesn't work on maps with open areas, but in smaller maps with narrow passages (GvH 11) it's a blast to play as. If I were to change it though, I would look at Seiat's Internal Conflict (ST Doom II monsters LMS mod), since he made some useful attacks for the class. Note that all of these attacks have a charge meter that change/improve the behavior of the attacks. They work as follows:

Weapon 1: Cacoball - the normal Caco Fireball. Charge up for more speed and slightly more damage. Infinite ammo.

Weapon 2: Slither Ball - fires three fireballs that "snake" and have a chance to home into targets somewhat. Charge for speed, but the homing won't be as effective. Can have up to 15 ammo, which regenerates over time and is at 0 when the match begins. Consumes 3 ammo each time it's used.

Weapon 3: Caco Flurry - fires a total of 20 Cacoballs at the opponent in Bass Buster fashion, albeit slow traveling. Like the Slither Ball, this isn't available immediatly, as you must wait to gain ammo for it. If charged completely, the projectiles travel much faster, and Caco may shoot projectiles other than Cacoballs (stars, bouncing projectiles [Rebound Striker?], etc.) It can have only one shot at a time.

In that mod, Caco can have other attacks under certain circumstances, but those are the three it always carries no matter what.

[Russel]

I have an idea that will make him WAY harder to see...I will also make his sound easier to hear if I can. Choke leaving behind beat wings is a simple mistake...I need to redo the gore anyway, considering enemies exploding into bones is so incredibly silly that it breaks Choke's Bloodball~

Anyhow. All I have truly done now is make ghost traps appear to desync less...but that's about it.
(btw, for those wondering, that was done by making the trap have client-based effects that have no merit online...hopefully this will keep issues to a minimum.)

Some revisions to Caco might be used...but I would like to keep the number of Ghoul weapons to one.

[Knux]

Well, at least I hope the fireballs get more useful, seeing as how slow the class and it's projectiles are. I mean, it's primarily a RANGED ghoul.

[xColdxFusionx]

Oh, boy, debates about balance in GvH! Let's do this.
- Sjas has Topman's speed, infinite flight, an AoE attack that can deal up to 100 damage, and can block attacks if he sees them coming. Can some of the other Ghouls do more damage? Sure. But think about it: pseudo-hasted flying super-powered Jax Flash with Skull Counters on tap. Goddamn.
- Yurei is what amounts to a glorified Creeper. ...She also has Maze of Love, double his health, and can go completely invisible while standing still. Sure, she has a normal-sized hitbox and blinks when walking around, but when you can obliterate entire teams in a cloud of flaming death and set up ambushes even the Spy would be proud of, I don't think you really care whether or not they can hit you.
- Cacodemon is... well... I think we all know the issue with him.
- Ghostbuster fires incredibly fast; he has the fastest firing rate in the game, save the Marine's assault rifle. Each shot also does 2-16 damage because either someone forgot to put the parentheses in or just thought it would be a good idea. Either way, that's a Bass Buster that does ~10 damage per hit on average. ...Ouch. Add in the fact that his traps are pretty much instant death and you have someone who can stall like a politician and has the firepower to back it up if something does happen to go horribly wrong.

tl;dr: First priority for this mod is taking a good long look at what works and what doesn't.

[Reidakk]

I think we MIGHT solve this "this is OP and that's OP" issue if we made a map pack specifically made for GvH in which all the classes are not hindered by the map's topography which goes double for Jitterskull in Windman.

[SmashTheEchidna]

Jitterskull in Waveman.
'Nuff said.

[Reidakk]

Reidakk, that is literally the entire point of the mod.

As a Ghoul, you're supposed to stalk your foe and strike at the correct moment, like a monster in a monster movie.

As a Human, you're supposed to run for your life.

Yes. This.

The problem with that is that sometimes people hate the stalling and tend to either map vote or kick vote and I freaking hate that so I can exactly stalk my foe all the time without expecting them to do either, let alone hide somewhere to come up with any brilliant ideas.

[Ceridran]

Reidakk, that is literally the entire point of the mod.

As a Ghoul, you're supposed to stalk your foe and strike at the correct moment, like a monster in a monster movie.

As a Human, you're supposed to run for your life.

Yes.

Yes.

I think we MIGHT solve this "this is OP and that's OP" issue if we made a map pack specifically made for GvH in which all the classes are not hindered by the map's topography which goes double for Jitterskull in Windman.

So much agreement. We need better maps to better compliment stuff.