Balrog's Fixed Saxton Hale - Reports of my death, yadayada

[Balrog]

I know that wad isn't meant for this version of SH...I'm just asking about it because it seems like some players have the idea that newer versions of SH are somehow totally incompatible with Classes and could never be fixed to be compatible. If I'm understanding this correctly, they could still be reconciled like the old version was if someone wanted to do so.

As for the survivors having an advantage with Classes...well, it might have been true if the Hales were as they appear in the current version, but in the old version, a good number of them are OP even against Classes. (And there's also PO Roll, who is nigh-unbeatable due to her healing.) It's mainly stalling and a select few maps that cause problems. And yet, despite those issues, the mode still seems fairly popular. (I enjoy it myself from time to time.) I just can't help thinking that if the mode is still fun even in the form we have now, a properly balanced version could be a great thing indeed.

Funny, a properly balanced version of anything with 50+ classes is mathematically impossible without rendering the distinctions between them meaningless. Also, from my armchair psychology the reason people like Classes Saxton is because it's unbalanced in their favor.

[Balrog]

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5770

Got a modded version of the overhaul for you guys to check out, hosting this and posting on the above thread will help me pinpoint the root cause of the crashing in r4 and up.

[MrL1193]

I know that wad isn't meant for this version of SH...I'm just asking about it because it seems like some players have the idea that newer versions of SH are somehow totally incompatible with Classes and could never be fixed to be compatible. If I'm understanding this correctly, they could still be reconciled like the old version was if someone wanted to do so.

As for the survivors having an advantage with Classes...well, it might have been true if the Hales were as they appear in the current version, but in the old version, a good number of them are OP even against Classes. (And there's also PO Roll, who is nigh-unbeatable due to her healing.) It's mainly stalling and a select few maps that cause problems. And yet, despite those issues, the mode still seems fairly popular. (I enjoy it myself from time to time.) I just can't help thinking that if the mode is still fun even in the form we have now, a properly balanced version could be a great thing indeed.

Funny, a properly balanced version of anything with 50+ classes is mathematically impossible without rendering the distinctions between them meaningless. Also, from my armchair psychology the reason people like Classes Saxton is because it's unbalanced in their favor.

Saxton Hale itself is, by definition, an unbalanced mode. It's impossible to perfectly balance one Hale against a team of survivors, especially when you factor in hundreds of maps and 60+ weapons, but it's still quite fun. It's the same with Classes (regardless of whether the mode is DM, LMS, CTF, or SH); you can't achieve perfect balance, but you can get close enough for the mode to be fun overall. As for distinctions between classes, the only distinction that's really causing problems in SH is extreme mobility (or extreme lack of it), which is only one distinguishing feature of classes. There are plenty of classes with similar or identical mobility that still have unique play styles due to their attacks, and smaller variations in mobility are not game-breaking.

Regarding players looking for easy wins, all I can offer are my personal experiences with the mode. I like Classes simply because they add uniqueness and variety. Many players I see on these servers also rotate through a variety of classes and don't touch infamous stallers like Quick Man, so I would guess that they're not just out for the wins either. The old version of SH is more than capable of shifting the balance against the survivors, depending on the Hale, so it's not always plain sailing. And even if it does just come down to the Hale chasing a lone speedy or flying survivor around, the Hale still wins sometimes. So I really don't believe that the only possible appeal in the mode is the chance at easy wins against the Hale.

Please don't take this the wrong way...I'm not expecting you guys to suddenly change your minds and start working on Class SH. I just felt the need to explain why I think Class SH isn't as hopeless as some people make it out to be. I'll leave you to your normal discussion now...

[fortegigasgospel]

The thing is, neither mod were made with the other in mind. And neither will be edited with the other in mind due to breaking the mods when not combined by doing so. Unless a joint effort mod is done were they take both and make them edited to work and not making those actual changes to each themselves, then they will never truly work together.

[tsukiyomaru0]

Well, Saxton Hale WAS balanced... But then they added Hard Mode. And bonus points if the host puts a timelimit above 0

[Balrog]

Here, have a new version.

[FTX6004]

Im glad you removed po roll i hated that hale so much like i do with neods.

[<geminibro>]

Will you do the Game Grumps hale?
Just askin'

[leoalex50]

Im glad you removed po roll i hated that hale so much like i do with neods.

what! po roll is removed dam it i was good with po roll plus she has good music

[tsukiyomaru0]

Im glad you removed po roll i hated that hale so much like i do with neods.

what! po roll is removed dam it i was good with po roll plus she has good music

A bit of fridge horror: PO Roll + Scrooge = NeoDS

[TailsMK4]

Well, the crashes are still occurring. I have no idea why this is happening, so we cannot fix it since we do not know what the problem is in the first place. If it is something in the core, either Zandronum or MM8BDM, then we can do nothing except wait for a new version.

[tsukiyomaru0]

Well, the crashes are still occurring. I have no idea why this is happening, so we cannot fix it since we do not know what the problem is in the first place. If it is something in the core, either Zandronum or MM8BDM, then we can do nothing except wait for a new version.

there are these old things I made WAAAAAAAAAAAAY back then:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9e3qr ... isited.pk3
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6ga9j ... Hotfix.pk3

Basically, took a working old version and adapted... But, as expected, NeoDS and others are in, but maybe it is non-crashy

[FTX6004]

I already found a problem look what is said.

Script error, "balrogsh-code6.pk3:actors/rathor.txt" line 224:
             Sprite names must be exactly 4 characters

[Oliver]

I already found a problem look what is said.

Script error, "balrogsh-code6.pk3:actors/rathor.txt" line 224:
             Sprite names must be exactly 4 characters

I think you mean, WE already found a problem 'cause i also know that too.

[Balrog]

Well, that was embarrassing. Here's a new version that has a prospective crash fix. No guarantees here.