TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)

[Rozark]

Just a list of thoughts concerning this mod and my relation to it:

(click to show/hide)

I've thought up the idea for Morshu and provided the sounds. I've also submitted an idea for a fix (Read: I can't code). Seeing as I only "dominate" in mapping and that isn't a thing here, I have no need to be added to the skype group but would still like to be credited for what I've done. I also recommend that you at least put thought into considering any future hales I may suggest and not just shrug them off on the reasoning. I aim for a twist on ideas that are intriguing and look, Morshu is one of the more unique hales to come from this mod. Really there's just two hales I'm pushing for; if those get in you have no idea how many batches of cookies I'll go out and bake. I'll even mail them to you.

P.S. Those Morshu changes aren't coming unless someone adds them, I've already mentioned enough times that I can't code.

[TailsMK4]

Just thought I'd give people that weren't in the Dev Chat recently some news. Our first beta was produced, and re-reproduced due to some bugs found. This will not be a public beta, but that may come later. I cannot remember all the details of the first beta, as I am feeling very sleepy right now, but I will say it's coming along quite nicely. A lot of the bugs that occurred in the Overhaul, minus the skin color bug, have been fixed. The skin color bug WILL be resolved before the official release, so don't worry about that. Various text fixes have been made as well, such as now a correct obituary for Cave Johnson, and Sniper is no longer referred to as his robot. The first official release will have a LOT of new fixes and additions, so it will be well worth the wait. As for the release date, we are going to hold off on an official release until after MM8BDM V3b is released so we can make sure the mod will be compatible with it. As such, it will be at least a week at the earliest before the official version one comes out.

EDIT: Because I care about my spelling and grammar.

[Ceridran]

1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)

2: Use Famitracker music that may or may not be made by the community, and remove voiceclips. Please. It retains the classic game feel. The music for Quote and Curly is an exception for changes.

With Saxton Hale himself gone, who's the simple character?

Scrooge McDuck. He's simple as Saxton Hale, and more interesting. Plus, it's satisfying to send someone flying straight up as you hit them.

[Linnie]

How many characters would we even have without Valve characters? I don't see the need to remove them; I'm of the opinion they should stay for legacy purposes, at very least Saxton himself. Seeman and Seelder also have a unique playstyle, being the only Melee-only duo. I'm of the opinion Cave should also stay due to being the only character with a Napalm Bomb-like projectile as a main weapon.


It just seems like too much work to remove half the characters and replace them with entirely new and yet still balanced and unique characters, especially when it was just said that they finished a private beta.

[The Killer Nacho]

That said, wouldn't it be a really cool idea to add some old school characters to the mix after the publicbetav1a? Imagine Bowser running around chomping Roll :P

[Rozark]

1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)

If you've personally made another 6-7 hales to replace the ones you're telling us to pull to fill these spots, then it's considered.
Otherwise continue dreaming.

[TailsMK4]

1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)

2: Use Famitracker music that may or may not be made by the community, and remove voiceclips. Please. It retains the classic game feel. The music for Quote and Curly is an exception for changes.

1. Not going to happen, unless a majority of the people on here support their removal. As for the classic characters, just continue to hold off on requests for now.

2. I personally enjoy the voiceclips, but if you got 8-bit-like music of the original themes, I'm all for it. I'm not a music maker, though.

Btw, I actually had wanted Scrooge scrapped before since it was a MM8BDM meme. Since we now have bosses like Morshu and Captain Falcon, though, I am fine with him staying in.

That said, wouldn't it be a really cool idea to add some old school characters to the mix after the publicbetav1a? Imagine Bowser running around chomping Roll :P

I actually have seen a few hales privately, and Bowser was one of them. However, at this time, I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release. Gizmo, get online. Can't test duo hales without a third person.


I will say this once more, no hales are going to get removed or added unless the majority of people say so. This is the exact reason why NeoDS and Pissed Off Roll didn't return.

[The Killer Nacho]

after the publicbetav1a?

I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release.

Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.

[Linnie]

I just played Lego's version of Hale, and I have to make sure, this one is going to be closer to the normal Hale, right?

Lego's Hale just, wasn't fun, there wasn't any variety in the Hales, the Hales were nothing but Megaman characters which took away the fun of taking down Hale -- the Hales are supposed to be big and intimidating, like Captain Falcon, and Quote and Curly. One of the three Hales was a bird, and another was Auto. Even when the normal Hale had characters that played exactly the same, it was, "Saxton Hale plays like Scrooge." They're completely different characters appearance-wise, so it still felt like a different Hale. Having Hales from the same game that play exactly the same way doesn't feel any different. The only part I liked was the reverse Exit item that could send the Hale away.


I couldn't find Lego's thread, so I came to the most relevant thread I could to voice my criticisms. The whole thing just gave off the "no fun allowed" vibe, no classes buster only Final Destination. Please don't do what Lego did, although I don't think you will judging by you keeping in most of the Hales.

[Rozark]

I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.

[ZeStopper]

after the publicbetav1a?

I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release.

Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.

V3B might come out on Sunday or Monday as Ivory said on the Answer Questions Above You thread. It's being held off so that any compatibility issues can be fixed, like any other mods.

[Linnie]

I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.

But it's so much fun.

And, didn't Balrog one put an anti-classes code in his version? Then everyone just played the older version. It seems if you make your Hale anti-classes you'll just drive people to the competition.

[Rozark]

Is waiting for a quickman fun?
Better yet; is waiting for a gyroman fun?
Is it fun to try and kill gyro or quick men?
Is it fun waiting 5 minutes DEAD while the hale tries to kill these gyro or quick men?

Seriously, Classes x Saxton isn't fun.

Also, people played the older version because the newer version had numerous bugs in it because those people don't know how to compile code efficiently.

People started playing the new version once PO Roll was removed, which personally I never had a problem with. Removing a hale instead of nerfing the healing? Why? That's just lazy.

[TailsMK4]

I should probably not post so much as to avoid a possible double post when it's actually time to release a project...but eh, at least discussions are going on, so I will try to keep them going.

Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.

For one thing, although I have confirmed the fix works on my end, duo hales have not been properly tested since I wasn't able to get a test session going with at least four people. I believe I have fixed the bug that allows the last survivor to get spread when the boss left at the time is Seeldier or Curly. Also, one thing I hope to get in by the time we make an official release is the new movement for Captain Falcon. He is quite unique now. The only thing that remains from the old movement is his rage.

While the topic comes to mind, Balrog still has not told me anything about M. Bison...so I will have to say the deadline for him is past now. However, he will be considered when it is time for new hales to be accepted. I have not set a limit of how many may be accepted...but having too many hales may be a problem. I will have to discuss with the development team on when enough is enough. As it is we have...I think it's 15 now.

I just played Lego's version of Hale, and I have to make sure, this one is going to be closer to the normal Hale, right?

Lego's Hale just, wasn't fun, there wasn't any variety in the Hales, the Hales were nothing but Megaman characters which took away the fun of taking down Hale -- the Hales are supposed to be big and intimidating, like Captain Falcon, and Quote and Curly. One of the three Hales was a bird, and another was Auto. Even when the normal Hale had characters that played exactly the same, it was, "Saxton Hale plays like Scrooge." They're completely different characters appearance-wise, so it still felt like a different Hale. Having Hales from the same game that play exactly the same way doesn't feel any different. The only part I liked was the reverse Exit item that could send the Hale away.

I couldn't find Lego's thread, so I came to the most relevant thread I could to voice my criticisms. The whole thing just gave off the "no fun allowed" vibe, no classes buster only Final Destination. Please don't do what Lego did, although I don't think you will judging by you keeping in most of the Hales.

When this was made, SilverSin tried to make it as close to the original as possible, almost like a port of the mode. So yes, this one is closer to the original, though the original was in what we would call TLMS, not LMS.

For Lego's, I noticed there wasn't much variety in the hales, but do keep in mind his mod is very outdated. I am sure he has worked on his mod some more since then, but he hasn't said anything. I don't even know if he's working on it anymore. I did like the item where you could force someone (not just the hale, but other players too), to be teleported to another spot. I think I will ask for permission to copy that item. I kind of want to try to combine the two mods, actually, in some way. My main complaint about the mode, though, is that Lego's hales quickly fold in a big server, though Balrog's hales at least have some chance. I even think still that Balrog's hales need to be buffed a bit more.

I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.

Alas, I wish I could not let that happen, but I cannot stop people from trying to do it anyway. There were actually people that said they were thinking of quitting MM8BDM altogether with this combo around, though they were people that liked "competitive" modes. I did not care for the combo myself, but there is no way I can prevent someone with a little coding knowledge from trying to do it anyway. Just know that official releases with this project will not have (any) Classes compatibility in mind.


EDIT:

People started playing the new version once PO Roll was removed, which personally I never had a problem with. Removing a hale instead of nerfing the healing? Why? That's just lazy.

I will say this once more again, no hales are going to get removed or added unless the majority of people say so. This is the exact reason why NeoDS and Pissed Off Roll didn't return.

If you would rather get her back in, then by all means try to convince the majority to join you. If you do so, I'll listen to your proposed changes. I leave matters like this to democracy. Hope you understand my stance on this.

[MrL1193]

Is waiting for a quickman fun?
Better yet; is waiting for a gyroman fun?
Is it fun to try and kill gyro or quick men?
Is it fun waiting 5 minutes DEAD while the hale tries to kill these gyro or quick men?

Seriously, Classes x Saxton isn't fun.

Believe me, I wish Quick Man and Gyro Man were the only problems posed by the classes. It would make my work a lot easier...The mod combination seems relatively bug-free now, so I've turned my attention to balance issues now. Quick Man and Gyro Man are not hard to tweak. It's trying to make sure that every other class is also reasonably well balanced that's time-consuming...but even so, I still maintain that none of the usual criticisms leveled at the mod combination are impossible to correct.

Oh, and just in case anyone might have missed them, I fixed a few bugs in the Saxton Hale mod itself:

(click to show/hide)

Added the obituary for Curly's Clones to the actual Clone shot so it would display correctly.
Changed the damage type on Ninja Spy's Blinding Flash (and added the appropriate pain states for it) so that the survivors' immunity to Flash Stopper wouldn't render it impotent.
Added a +CANTSEEK flag to the survivors' class so homing weapons won't target allies. (Also added -CANTSEEK to the bosses to be safe.)
Fixed the obituary for Cave's Combustable Lemon.