TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)

[ZeStopper]

Yeah, I know. But I feel that it needs something. Is tsuki still working on it anyways?

[tsukiyomaru0]

Well, first of all... This is not much as hide and seek, and more of "hide and pray for the lord you are never found even though everyone stands out like a sore thumb". Second, it's still crashtastic. Third is the idea of how it should take an approach to the original "Hide And Seek" for Skulltag.
said changes should include:

1. Class-based gameplay. The original one had a few classes that changed how the hiders and seekers behave, adding variety according to each's play style.
2. Different Timer Behavior. It IS possible to use a timer right on the SBARINFO by having a Global Variable being handled. But you will likely want to initialize it to prevent Null errors.
3. No freezing Hiders in place after hiding time is up.
4. Team-based gameplay. See the Skulltag example above.
4.1. I propose timer changes based on the difference between teams. If there are more seekers than hiders, the hiders should be able to sustain more damage and survive longer. If there are more hiders than seekers, the seekers should have boosted speed until the number of hiders is less or equal to the number of seekers.
5. Last One Standing advantage. The last hider should be given the ability to create a distraction (Flash Bomb Blast Effect, Flash Stopper, etc) in the form of useable items.

[TailsMK4]

1. Class-based gameplay. The original one had a few classes that changed how the hiders and seekers behave, adding variety according to each's play style.

I will not do classes for Hiders (for the time being), but I have a few in mind for the Seekers.

2. Different Timer Behavior. It IS possible to use a timer right on the SBARINFO by having a Global Variable being handled. But you will likely want to initialize it to prevent Null errors.

I will research on that. Sounds like it might be useful.

3. No freezing Hiders in place after hiding time is up.

This is where I draw the line. I will 100% NOT do this, or it is not called Hide and Seek anymore. It just becomes Tag.


If you guys are curious about my inspiration for this mod, I modeled mine after the Hide and Seek mode in Sonic Robo Blast 2. Here is a video of myself playing it with friends:

The difference between this and Tag? Hiders can move in Tag. That's it. Btw, the Brawlman you guys see in this video is the very same Brawlman that was here with you guys.

Hopefully you guys understand the approach I am taking with this mod. I am not ruling out making a team-based option in the future, but I will not model mine after the Doom Hide and Seek, which from what I have read about it is not really hide and seek at all. If someone wants to make a mod based off of the Doom one, then that is fine by me. This will not be that mod, though.

[tsukiyomaru0]

Then why bother naming it simply "hide and seek"? It's more like "hide and freeze". Plus, it doesn't even match common context of the variant commonly known, where hiders are allowed to freely roam for a new hiding place until they are caught.

Sorry, but I'd suggest you name it "SRB2-HnS" instead, because it is just a copypasta of that one, and then it would leave spot for a more elaborate one to surface.

Also, you maybe have not caught this happening in the past, but someone once hosted a "Hide and Seek" that was just a "rule of mouth", rather than having mods involved. And everything was permited, except slaying the seeker.

[The Killer Nacho]

Does anyone else feel the Lightning Round happens too often? Every other round it seems one is forced into a position based on their arbitrary spawn point. The one time I was picked to seek, it was Frostman's stage and people could just ride the snowboards around to waste time. I ran out of time as soon as I found the last two people that were hiding extremely closely to one another. Had I not had to waste time superjumping over to the "free snowboarding section", chase around all the wild Megamen, and superjump on to the next section, I would have easily won. I doubt something can be done about this, but since you're hosting, can you remove it from the rotation? Since you're already having issues with the timer, I won't make any strong suggestions there, but just in case you would like to know I personally find it a bit difficult to read console messages with each timer second taking up a slot. Just some feedback.

[TailsMK4]

All right, so after a discussion with players in my SH server, I have decided that I will leave open the possibility of basically doing a "rebirth" of Saxton Hale starting from SilverSin's version. Even though Balrog attempted this, and I thank him for that, his mod is quite a mess now. Before we begin, though, I'd like to start some discussions about how we should approach this. I have a few topics in mind, but if you have something you want to bring up, go ahead.

Some topics I have in mind are:

1. The hales themselves. Here is what is different in the list between SilverSin and Balrog:

SS:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
(Robo) Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
NeoDS
Pissed Off Roll
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier

BR:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier
Morshu
Captain Falcon
Quote and Curly
(?)M. Bison (next update?)
(?)Spike (if DarkAura was still going to work on him)

Any hales that should be kept? Is there a certain version of a particular Hale you want to return?


2. The original Saxton Hale in Team Fortress 2 was team-based, with the hale on one team and the rest of the players on the other. Should we keep it as is or switch to this system? This would make Ra Thor a little difficult to update, but this is just something on the table for debate. A benefit of this is that we will not have to worry too much about translations, since players will know that red colors = boss.


3. SilverSin did make some Saxton Hale Classes. Should we try to bring those back?


4. Should some bosses, like Saxton himself, show up more often than others? Or we should we keep it where there is an "equal" chance of a hale appearing? I say "equal" since the RNG is not completely random...


5. Where should we balance out the two sides? I feel the way the mod is going under Balrog that the players are favored too much over the hale. I'd like to start buffing a few of the hales myself, but that's just me.


If you got more ideas to discuss, then feel free to do so. Let the discussion begin!

[tsukiyomaru0]

Possibly relevant, but say... Is it just me or the crashes stopped for good in Zandronum 1.1.1? Although I see a brief "freeze frame" whenever the "last survivor" music plays along with announcer's voice.

[Balrog]

1. <whatever>

2. Uh, no. I don't trust Zandronum to handle constant team switching like that reliably.

3. Adding Saxton Hale Classes would mean adding Classes, which is made of fail and AIDS. No thanks.

4. Considering the number of bosses here, I'm not sure weighting the chances is a good idea.

5. I'm all for things that require the survivors to have skill. The question is, who needs buffed?

[The Killer Nacho]

Ah, some more Saxton Hale. If someone can pull this off, it's you, Tails.

1. As much as I personally want an Akuma for Hale, I'm fine with Balrog's list with a couple exceptions. I think I can safely say I'm not the only one in the community who thinks Morshu is a joke that has been stretched too far. Gilgamesh is about as effective as a rubber duck and Cave could use a slight health nerf.

2. Team based gameplay is a wonderful idea on paper, but it doesn't seem like it would work out too well and I can already see a variety of glitches. Team chat isn't really necessary in a style as fast-paced as this and I ultimately just see more unnecessary work that could be diverted to resources such as giving each Hale a unique skin, which would solve the problem of identifying the Hale anyway.

3. Maybe it would be most reasonable in this case to get the project on its feet to show the community it's got potential before worrying about potential classes. In other words, adding classes may be biting off more than we can chew at the moment.

4. I'm a strong advocate of equal chances for Hales to be chosen. Even if some Hales are liked less by most of the community, variety would appeal to both the community and the minority equally.

5. I have to disagree on this one as of the most recent Saxton Hale by Balrog. Hales have enormous amounts of health and unless there's a boatload of people, the survivors are essentially screwed. As of R7, I feel Hales overall need less health and slightly more speed (or perhaps slightly more range, but under no circumstances should they get both).

Additional Notes: To prevent too many people from wiping the Hale out too quickly, I think there should be weapon tiers. More players, lower tier weapons to stop 15 people shutting down the centerpiece of the mod in 10 seconds with Flash Bomb. I also feel last survivor should get a random rune instead of just spread to spice up the game and an E-Tank so they have a better chance against either of the Caves (Johnson or Story).

I really hope my points are considered because I don't want such a great mod to die.

EDIT: Somewhat Ninja'd by Balrog for most of my main points  :?

[Ceridran]

1 - The ones I'd like to see staying are Scrooge, Quote&Curly, Ra Thor Reborn, Captain Falcon, and M.Bison when he comes in.

2 - Wouldn't you have to die first to switch teams?

3 - No.

4 - I don't really think so. On the subject of Saxton Hale, I probably wouldn't care if Saxton Hale himself was removed and the gamemode name was changed.

5 - In attempts to balance, hales become overpowered. I think I'm bad at coming up with things to balance with.

[leoalex50]

1. pissed of roll should come back

2. wait for updates

3.no or wait for updates

4. "equal"

5. i'm with balrog on this one

[tsukiyomaru0]

1. NeoDS. Because Craptain Failc*** is bad.

2. Team System is not needed, really. And we can't do it Zombie Horde's way (using Survival mode) because there is only one coop start point in the maps, if I recall correctly.

3. No, no and HELL NO! At most, it would require original classes that aren't TOO MUCH different from Megaman, as to not disrupt the game greatly. Because we don't need people running around at the speed of sound and going sky high all the time.

4. Sepparate the RNG in three stages: RNG Common (1/4 chance of being skipped): Hales with melee attacks. RNG Uncommon (1/2 chance of being skipped): Hales that only shoot (like Cave Johnson and Morshu) and Duo hales. RNG Rare (Cannot be skipped): Duo Shooting bosses ( " and {} ) and bosses that have absurd powers (Ra Thor's super ultimate black hole of a doom and his minions)

5. It's not that simple. The projectiles are often huge, which means they have too much of a chance to strike the player at point blank. And it is not that Balrog's favors players over hale, but rather that he fixed some issues (OP Roll Healing for one), while others still remain (Morshu's hitbox dissonance in his bombs, absurd bomb interval, no protection to his own bombs when holding it, Cave Johnson's OP Flame Lemon...)

[<geminibro>]

Could i suggest some Hales by Private Messahes?

[DarkAura]

(?)Spike (if DarkAura was still going to work on him)

I was hoping everyone forgot about him. Unfortunately, I stopped working on him due to bullshit-coding abilities, a year of procrastinating on it, generatively not caring, and quitting Saxton Hale all-together.

If someone wants to "adopt" him, then I can send all the crap I managed to do to whoever wants him.

[SmashTheEchidna]

1. Any hales that should be kept? Is there a certain version of a particular Hale you want to return?
Morshu can stay out for all I care, but I want Captain Falcon to come back with my moveset and skin. If he doesn't, I'm going to be really upset. Though I'm pretty sure Rozark would have the right to feel upset if Morshu didn't get in with his moveset either. Keep Roll and NeoDS out.

2. The original Saxton Hale in Team Fortress 2 was team-based, with the hale on one team and the rest of the players on the other. Should we keep it as is or switch to this system? This would make Ra Thor a little difficult to update, but this is just something on the table for debate. A benefit of this is that we will not have to worry too much about translations, since players will know that red colors = boss.
Keep the system as is. As convenient as it'd be to see every hale as red, I can foresee too many problems with a TLMS version.


3. SilverSin did make some Saxton Hale Classes. Should we try to bring those back?
No. If people want classes, they can add it themselves.

4. Should some bosses, like Saxton himself, show up more often than others? Or we should we keep it where there is an "equal" chance of a hale appearing? I say "equal" since the RNG is not completely random...
Keep it equal.

5. Where should we balance out the two sides? I feel the way the mod is going under Balrog that the players are favored too much over the hale. I'd like to start buffing a few of the hales myself, but that's just me.
There really isn't much we can do with the players except arrange the weapons and items selection, so let's focus on the hales.

I wouldn't mind being a part of this. If my things are gonna get in, I'm gonna have to step in somewhere.