New Gamers, how must we do with them?

[Tengu]

Players doing things you don't like are of course something you may feel free to dislike, but being a complete jerk about it and automatically seeing every new player as something bad is seriously not a good thing to do.

First impressions are everything. If a player I've never seen before comes into server, I'll welcome them with open arms. If they call me a faggot after I frag them, do you think I'm going to treat them nicely? If they just simply get mad, I'll try to be like "Oh hey, it's just a game don't worry." But if they're outright rude, then no.

People stalling in Saxton Hale are not a "threat to the community" or a "threat to the overall enjoyment of the game". It is not like we have other servers. And if playing Saxton Hale means taking the risk of some people making rounds last too long, so be it.

Actually, I would indeed call it a threat to the community. If a new player joins Saxton Hale, odds are they'll die pretty quick. And if a round takes the full 10 minutes or whatever to finish, do you really think they're gonna wanna stick around? They could just go to a different serv-- OH WAIT!! There ARE no other servers to go to! Goodbye MM8BDM, it was fun!

If a player is new and maybe doing things that appear wrong to you, just let them figure it out for themselves, or maybe mention it to them in a friendly and civilized way. But it is no reason to complain about it on the forums.

Actually, most complaints I see about 'trolling' in servers on the forums is a new player complaining about an already existing player in-game. And to be fair, sometimes they're just over-reacting. Do I think it's right for a new player to get beat on? No. Do I think they should react a little less? Yes.

And I 100% agree that the game should be easier to use. The whole multiplayer requiring additional programs and configurations are flaws. Not "features that protect us against the threat of new players that - god forbid - could do something wrong and worst of all STALL IN SAXTON HALE MODE". If you think so, you're just an idiot.
Of course, it is debatable if spending a lot of time and resources to somehow integrate both things together is really worth it.

Packaging Doomseeker into the .ZIP file with the game and stalling in Saxton Hale aren't even related. You also just said you 100% agree that the game should be easier to use, but then you said it's debatable if it's worth it.

I don't recall people bitching endlessly about players using cheap tactics two years ago when Roboenza was the most popular thing around. So why are some people complaining about something similar now? And why so much?

Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale. Also in my memory, back when Roboenza was popular, there was almost always more servers up usually hosting vanilla that other people could go to. And they actually had people in them.

The whole Roleplayer thing however, that should - in my opinion - just die outright. But not wanting there to be new players just because they could make your match of Saxton Hale mode boring ... is the dumbest form of stupidity.

When did someone ever say "I don't want new players because they make Sax boring."? The problem I have with this is that we should worry more about getting players involved into the core of the game, vanilla, instead of giving them one option and one option only (This being Saxton Hale). Please, please, envision yourself being a new player. You figure out the works of playing online and all the jazz, and you get on Doomseeker. What do you see? empty servers everywhere except for two classes saxton hale servers. They're both the same so you're bound to get bored with one after a while. You decide to play a different mode, so you wait in a DM server for a while and what happens? One guy shows up and tosses your shit three times so you get upset and play offline. You get bored with offline so you say "Fuck this game." And never touch it again.

[Gumballtoid]

Let me just open up Doomseeker for a moment. Here we have the aforementioned Saxton Hale server, full as usual. Scroll down and we see two roleplayers, spectating of course, in the Grandvoid server. Below that is a server hosting wads that are probably buried within the depths of Cutstuff. Further below is a test server for a rarely-played mod. And then there's a vanilla server with a few unfamiliar faces.

Fuck. Better join the full server: Saxton Hale.

Shit, I died early in the round. Sure wish the match could proceed. Oh, but, what's this? It appears there are a few stalling players delaying the match. ...Hrm, really tired of waiting. Fuck this, I could be doing better things. Bye, server.

Scale that appropriately and you get the idea.

[*Alice]

And I 100% agree that the game should be easier to use. The whole multiplayer requiring additional programs and configurations are flaws. Not "features that protect us against the threat of new players that - god forbid - could do something wrong and worst of all STALL IN SAXTON HALE MODE". If you think so, you're just an idiot.
Of course, it is debatable if spending a lot of time and resources to somehow integrate both things together is really worth it.

Packaging Doomseeker into the .ZIP file with the game and stalling in Saxton Hale aren't even related. You also just said you 100% agree that the game should be easier to use, but then you said it's debatable if it's worth it.

It was a comment about this:

So, while making getting online easier should be a goal, it should not be thoughtlessly easy.

He basically made the correction of a flaw a political issue and I felt that a comment about that would be necessary.

I don't recall people bitching endlessly about players using cheap tactics two years ago when Roboenza was the most popular thing around. So why are some people complaining about something similar now? And why so much?

Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale. Also in my memory, back when Roboenza was popular, there was almost always more servers up usually hosting vanilla that other people could go to. And they actually had people in them.

I still find it incredibly disturbing that nobody realizes that we actually do have vanilla servers and even multiple of them. The only thing is that nobody is playing there at times.
If you want proof, here you go:

(click to show/hide)

[Gumballtoid]

Most new players are naturally inclined to join servers with more players. Guess what server usually has the most?

The big daddy, Saxton Hale.

[Davregis]

Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale.

How do you figure this?

[Ceridran]

Let me just open up Doomseeker for a moment. Here we have the aforementioned Saxton Hale server, full as usual. Scroll down and we see two roleplayers, spectating of course, in the Grandvoid server. Below that is a server hosting wads that are probably buried within the depths of Cutstuff. Further below is a test server for a rarely-played mod. And then there's a vanilla server with a few unfamiliar faces.

Fuck. Better join the full server: Saxton Hale.

Shit, I died early in the round. Sure wish the match could proceed. Oh, but, what's this? It appears there are a few stalling players delaying the match. ...Hrm, really tired of waiting. Fuck this, I could be doing better things. Bye, server.

Scale that appropriately and you get the idea.

You summed up EEEVVEERRYYYTTHHIIINGG that happens when I, and pretty much everybody else plays this game.

I would love to see more Vanilla TDM. That is great. Also doesn't make new players feel bad just because they didn't win: they're more likely to win because it's a team game.

Preferably TDM with forced autoselect and no switching.

[tsukiyomaru0]

There's also the fact that:
LMS/TLMS: Some matches can take more than 10 minutes to end
DM/TDM: Can be fun, but will get dull after you play long enough
CTF: Honestly, I find these pretty boring
Classes: In general, they are kinda big and not really balanced, which ruins the mood. Also, I have been getting crashes from it since the "V3A compatibility update".
Saxton FailHale: It is broken beyond repair. Really. Tried to make it stop crashing, but the most it did was lower the chances. Don't even know why people insist in mixing this with classes
Mission Mode: Fun, doesn't crash much (When it does, it is after the "Boss Title Card" call, before the stage starts), but doesn't last much (YET)
Chaos Generator: My personal favorie. Fun, doesn't crash and got plenty of motivation to play over and over. But, sadly, isn't hosted much.
Unholy Classes: One thing: Never take it seriously. For fooling around, it is as good as Chaos Generator. For serious games however...
RNC: Kinda used to enjoy in its early days. Today... Not much.

This sums up my opinion on the subject.

[Emmanuelf06]

Without class mode (classic, mmx, or others), it can be the SAME THING.

I don't care about "balanced" class with V6F...it's pretty good for a fanmode. It's more for the fun, not really serious like the normal mode.

Saxtonhale is broken, specially with some class like Quickman....but it's not a big problem...

[Knux]

I honestly want Doomseeker to come pre-packaged in every new copy of MM8BDM

If I remember correctly, it hasn't been done due to legal shit or something.

Also, there are some people (like Bikdark actually, I don't recall anyone else) that call someone a Mexican as a manner of saying they're... something derogatory. No, really, it's that retarded cliche about Mexican people. I hope you know what I mean, because I'm not willing to describe it here. Otherwise, look it up somewhere.

[TheMetalManu]

After reading this whole topic, I decided to go and see if people were playing some good n' old deathmatch, and as I expected the Alternia server was plenty of people, and with some familiar faces around too. I played some matches and except the fact that I suck at MM8BDM and there was some guy that every time wins a match says "Must... kill...", it was a pretty cool time.

[Emmanuelf06]

After reading this whole topic, I decided to go and see if people were playing some good n' old deathmatch, and as I expected the Alternia server was plenty of people, and with some familiar faces around too. I played some matches and except the fact that I suck at MM8BDM and there was some guy that every time wins a match says "Must... kill...", it was a pretty cool time.

Indeed, i think, the best way, is to see the positive part. If not, we will do nothing (same thing for the others passions/contest like AMV contest, Cosplay, sport....)

[Galactan]

What I don't understand is the popularity of the BR91 CLASS SAXTON HALE server when the sprites+music+misc pk3 is almost impossible to find.  That and the fact that the survivors pretty much always win.

[tsukiyomaru0]

What I don't understand is the popularity of the BR91 CLASS SAXTON HALE server when the sprites+music+misc pk3 is almost impossible to find.  That and the fact that the survivors pretty much always win.

Because it's "Mod+Classes". Just look at it: Roboenza with Classes, Saxton with Classes, Chaos Generator with Classes, Strength in Numbers (Which is Mission Mode with MORE classes) and guess what? Classes with Classes!

[TailsMK4]

I will just say that all the classes related stuff has left me with no option then to play some other games. I did get new people when I hosted just Saxton Hale/Hide and Seek with no maps, but as soon as I did the request to add more maps...then yeah, just the regulars. Because of SH's buggy nature, though, I have decided to stop hosting it for the time being, and decided to go vanilla on two of my favorite modes, TLMS and CTF. Vanilla Deathmatch has always been there...but I do not care for it that much. Heck, even some Roboenza sounds good, but people insist on CLASSES. This statement might be a stretch...but Classes may actually be killing the game a bit.

[*Alice]

I, personally, stopped playing Roboenza because the balance got shifted - in my opinion too much - in favor of the survivors after v3a got released.
Classes have always killed the game. Or not. People have always argued about Classes and probably always will.
The sentence above contains sarcasm.
I find it quite sad that with mm8bdm v3a map packs have basically died or at least declined a lot in popularity in general. There are many good custom maps that aren't played anymore at all.