New Gamers, how must we do with them?

[Emmanuelf06]

You know Linnie, if you do get to making that patch one day, you might want to exclude some game breaking classes and/or remove abilities that break the Saxton game. For example, Gyro man being able to fly only once in an entire match. It's a lot of work, but if it gets done, it could be both balanced and fun.

Indeed! I understand Balrog for that!

Class is made for TLMS and can be TDM (but less balanced, a lot of robotmasters will be not enought powerfull to kill, like Diveman or Ballade, not like Metalman or Slashman).
Im bored when we must wait the final Saxton hale against a Gyroman/Windman or others....it's really boring.

I understand better the point of Balrog....

Class + Roboenza is boring too. (I will never RE-play it because it's WEIRD lol)

To do some mix can be funny for a moment, but not too much.

I play Saxton/Class because there wasnt TLMS, again....i hope more people on TLMS or a TDM class server

Recently, i trolled Saxton Hale with JunkCube, it killed Uncle Scrooge directly, a good way to finish a game.

And there is a big problem, the crazy thing, when everybody take the same robotmaster, the worst= everybody BUBBLEMAN on DIVEMAN MAP against a GILGAMESH, it's terrible! :/

And yeah, too much class...can kill the general atmosphere, and the point of class. With saxton hale class......

[CutmanMike]

I thought this topic was originally about elitists insulting newer gamers, in which case my advise is to just ignore them in game and move on. There's nothing we can do here except maybe ask the members (if they're on this forum) to be nicer.

But about the whole saxton hale being played more than xyz OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN. It was the same thing with GVH and Skulltag. GVH was more popular than any other mod, people who didn't want that raged at me, on the forums or even in the GVH servers themselves. You can't make people play what you want, people will always play what they think is fun. Whether that is a specific mod or just playing with lots of players. Suck it up, start events for other players that are interested in what you want to play and especially don't whine about it (not saying anyone currently is). We can't make people play vanilla if they've had a taste for mods and want something new, vanilla is what it is: MM8BDM. Some people don't want to play it anymore.

[Emmanuelf06]

I thought this topic was originally about elitists insulting newer gamers, in which case my advise is to just ignore them in game and move on.

indeed, at the convention, i told to the guys who were interested with MM8BDM : "online, there can be no-tolerant guys against new players who start, but its the same thing EVERYWHERE, exemple, counter strike, Call of duty or others games or passions (Cosplay world is worse than FPS)..."
I told them, they must ignore the bad guys and must have fun, first.  

[King Dumb]

"Perhaps it's time we all stopped trying to outsmart the truth, and let it have its day".

How many times have I seen something along the lines of "we need more 24/7 vanilla servers" and like discussions going on. How every single time, it only lasts like a week tops. The solution is old, it obviously doesn't work / isn't working. If it worked, we wouldn't have to be making yet another topic to discuss it.

But about the whole saxton hale being played more than xyz OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN. It was the same thing with GVH and Skulltag. GVH was more popular than any other mod, people who didn't want that raged at me, on the forums or even in the GVH servers themselves. You can't make people play what you want, people will always play what they think is fun. Whether that is a specific mod or just playing with lots of players. Suck it up, start events for other players that are interested in what you want to play and especially don't whine about it (not saying anyone currently is). We can't make people play vanilla if they've had a taste for mods and want something new, vanilla is what it is: MM8BDM. Some people don't want to play it anymore.

Credible sources. Experience. Generally smart people. Listen to these people, even if you won't listen to me. People who don't want to play something won't play it. Vanilla servers are up now, they have been up in the past, and they will be up. No one who prefers to play Saxton Hale, Classes, etc etc will join them.

I could go on a long dialogue about why so many players prefer Saxton and Classes over vanilla, from many different perspectives, but for now suffice it to say such modes fit these players' definition of "fun". For truly, why else do we play but for fun? Some may find competitive modes fun (such as myself), some may find these more casual modes fun. I won't go into which is a more "refined" opinion of "fun" at this time.

There are a couple of different avenues for solutions.

1) Influx of players. If more players join, perhaps more players will play vanilla modes/whatever you want to play. Or, perhaps all the new players will flock to the same modes, in which case we'd have to move on to some other solutions. But I don't even see a method by which we could get new players aside from luck anyway. And I mean a genuine increase in player base; the so-called "Homie Invasion" was destined to be temporary by nature.

2) Contribute to the solution, when you can (most of us can). Unlike most, I don't necessarily mind those who complain but don't contribute to solutions; sometimes you aren't capable of solving the problems you see. But if you are capable of solving them, or contributing to their solutions, then you should try and do so. The whole point of events is to organize people of similar interests to play their favorite mods when there a lot of people around. In other words, they solve everyone's issues! Use them!

3) Make new game modes that bring in everyone. Do your research and study people; people who play Saxton Hale and/or Classes enjoy a certain kind of gameplay, people who play Duel, DM, CTF, etc. enjoy this other element of gameplay. Combine these and bingo. Contrary to popular (well, popular in this community, anyway) belief, this is actually possible. Commercial FPSs do this all the time; that's usually the only way they are successful. This solution would probably be best, but *gasp* it requires devoting time to learning basic ACS and Decorate to make their modes. There are plenty of knowledgeable people in this community who will help you learn.

Obviously, many players don't find vanilla modes as enjoyable as Saxton Hale + Classes, etc. So ask yourselves, why do they play what they do, and why don't they play what they don't? Do they like seeing the "You Win!"? Do they hate losing all the time in vanilla modes like Deathmatch? Is it really the players? Maybe they just don't like dying? Maybe the variety offered by classes is important? Do they like the empowering feeling of being Saxton Hale? Are they even Saxton Hale that often? What do they think about the problem of dying and waiting for long rounds to end?

These questions are answerable. Hell, some of the answers even lie in this thread.

Perhaps the real secret is that people are just losing interest in the game. Luckily, avenues 1 and 3 are still totally possible if that's the case. The question to ask here is, are you losing interest in the game as it is now, or the game as it was once? In other words, would you be interested again if we rolled the clocks back two or three years?

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No one is in complete innocence for "the way things are". But, do you feel guilty?

[Balrog]

Obviously, many players don't find vanilla modes as enjoyable as Saxton Hale + Classes, etc. So ask yourselves, why do they play what they do, and why don't they play what they don't? Do they like seeing the "You Win!"? Do they hate losing all the time in vanilla modes like Deathmatch? Is it really the players? Maybe they just don't like dying? Maybe the variety offered by classes is important? Do they like the empowering feeling of being Saxton Hale? Are they even Saxton Hale that often? What do they think about the problem of dying and waiting for long rounds to end?

These questions are answerable. Hell, some of the answers even lie in this thread.

Perhaps the real secret is that people are just losing interest in the game. Luckily, avenues 1 and 3 are still totally possible if that's the case. The question to ask here is, are you losing interest in the game as it is now, or the game as it was once? In other words, would you be interested again if we rolled the clocks back two or three years?

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No one is in complete innocence for "the way things are". But, do you feel guilty?

I don't know about you, but I think that route 1 is the best option here. New people are always nice, when they're willing to learn and assimilate. I'm not anti-newbie; I'm anti-n00b. Show me that you're not an epic moron and you're fine in my book. I'm not even sure what route 2 is, and and route 3 just seems odd. Apparently, people who play Saxton Hale (and nothing else) like it because they can win even though they aren't good at the game, while vanilla players like playing vanilla modes because winning generally depends on skill in those modes. I'm not really sure how you're supposed to reconcile those.

[TailsMK4]

I personally liked seeing new players whenever they came on my server. Hide and Seek seemed to attract new players, and since that one is my mod, I think the "newness" of the mode will spark activity just a bit once I get v1c going (a few issues in there are ones that are tricky to resolve, hence why I am taking my time on it). I kind of wonder if we should try to revive old mods, or else try to do some new modes like I had been attempting with my racing mod and Hide and Seek.

I know for one thing that adding map packs, as more enjoyable overall as they are, tends to discourage new players from joining. Having to download like 8 new things just to try out a new mode is a bit overkill. That may explain why BR91's server is more popular than the generically named "Saxton Classes" server that has everything BR91's server has, but has a few map packs as well. If new players want to explore the new maps, they can download them themselves. Whether or not they did the single player campaign, I think new players may want to get a bit more used to the official maps before exploring other maps. I may be wrong, of course, but I feel that may be the case.

I think I'll end this with a question as well. All of us started new here. What was/were the reason(s) we stayed and continued playing? For me, it was the extra mods, though I still love a good old fashioned LMS or CTF game.

[King Dumb]

2) Contribute to the solution, when you can (most of us can). Unlike most, I don't necessarily mind those who complain but don't contribute to solutions; sometimes you aren't capable of solving the problems you see. But if you are capable of solving them, or contributing to their solutions, then you should try and do so. The whole point of events is to organize people of similar interests to play their favorite mods when there a lot of people around. In other words, they solve everyone's issues! Use them!

Heh, I removed a part of this, and it must have contained the meat.

Avenue 2 is playing the game. Too many people complain about not having people to play with in their favorite modes. When events for such modes are organized, all too often they die. If you enjoy the game, play it. Only good will come of it.

[ZeStopper]

I remember when I started everyone was playing classes and Saxton. I sucked. It took me a lot of time to improve to get used to all of the classes. The thing is that it was hard and frustrating, and I don't want any of our new players to feel like they're weak or something just because of one class. So, maybe we can have some kind of tutoring server, to teach them how to play. Perhaps even a server for all the new players to introduce themselves, for us to teach them.  That way there'll always be someone with at least one kill.

[Watzup7856]

I love to see new players, and im always willing to help them out with something. But when a new player says to me "fuck you" after i win a DM match, then yes it annoys the hell out of me. its even worse when they try to vote kick you for winning too much. some new players can be like that, but not all.

[ZeStopper]

I love to see new players, and im always willing to help them out with something. But when a new player says to me "fuck you" after i win a DM match, then yes it annoys the hell out of me. its even worse when they try to vote kick you for winning too much. some new players can be like that, but not all.

I agree with you, I was going to get kicked for standing in one place as a Hale, that too in Spring Man's stage (which I feel is not appropriate). The whole thing got boring anyway.

[TailsMK4]

A tutoring server sounds interesting, but I'm trying to figure out how one could be done. I feel that is something I can help do as long as we have a somewhat solid plan in place.

[Accel]

What if someone made a tutorial map, complete with test dummies, a training ground, and a system that uses the text to teach players how to play?

Granted... that's pretty much Light's Lab's purpose, but I mean an area just fully dedicated to training new players, that other, older players can join and help out with.

[Knux]

Shit, that's easy to do. Place props, weapons, and other stuff in cubicles that pop up a HUD message when you walk up to them, and a few areas to test the weapons in. I'm all for making such a map. Of course, there's probably other stuff to take accounts for, but I have a feeling I could pull it off.

[EazyDI]

I posted this when homies started rolling in, but it's still relevant here.

This could be a bad thing.


Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.

Balrog, you're a dickhead and wrong for that. English isn't his main language, and there is no rule on CS  saying you have to speak "proper English" when posting.

[Knux]

It was already stated in a much nicer manner. You didn't even have to bother.