SBWT Mapping Competition: Wave Man

[CutmanMike]

It's a shame no one attempted to try a different gimmick for wave man, I know not everyone is as savvy with the code as some but some new ideas for the wave bikes would have been neat. Maybe instead of a way to get around, a respawning powerup kind of functionality that temporarily lets you ride around and fire at your opponents from the sea? Or maybe not even have bikes, and have that octopus thing show up and do something I dunno.

[Kapus]

It's a shame no one attempted to try a different gimmick for wave man

I thought the bubbles, vents and teleporting pipes were cool concepts, but I guess they weren't emphasized as much as the wavebikes.

[CutmanMike]

Oh yeah derp, forgot about those.

[Rozark]

Wave could've pulled a Tengu and had the Octopus at the end constantly firing things while everyone else is on wavebikes going towards the octopus thing.

Or is spawning on wavebikes/an attacking actor too hectic for a map.

[Knux]

Wave could've pulled a Tengu and had the Octopus at the end constantly firing things while everyone else is on wavebikes going towards the octopus thing.

Or is spawning on wavebikes/an attacking actor too hectic for a map.

Just a stage hazard done differently. Not a bad idea...

the map's basically Wave Man Remixed.

Knux was left behind in low tide.

All right, let's get some actual facts in here, since I'm fed up:

- The wavebikes aren't a deathtrap.

I demonstrated this earlier in the server to some people playing with me in the map. I took everything available in the water, including the difficult W Tanks (not the one to the west though, fuck that). Factor in that I was lagging (300-550 ping) and there you have it. Wavebikes being a death trap in my map is from lack of a bit of practice, and not a flaw of the layout itself.

Hell, you can stay below forever if you wanted, which is why I wanted to make it smaller, but that would've been sadistic on my part.

- Map size compared to MM5WAVX.

MM5WAVX:
- 7040x7072 border size.
- High platforms not so easy to reach by just crashing, needs jump crashing sometimes.
- Extremely open in terms of wavebike space.
- Painfully big  and hard to travel solid ground.

MM5WAV3:
- 5312x4864 border size.
- Easy to reach ground from wavebike crash.
- Wavebikes aren't abusable, but as demonstrated live earlier, very useable.
- Solid ground easy to figure out, as everything is connected.
- Wavebikes aren't actually needed, as the map is fully connected. Though if used as shortcuts, they work great. For everything else, PRACTICE. A lot of turns are possible.

Stop calling it Wave Man Remixed, it's not. I can live with "the son of Wave Man Remixed", though, as it WAS inspired on it.

Flat Ground

Just me trying to make Water Wave useful. There's cover everywhere, too. Is your opponent too far away spamming homing weapons? Be creative and take a shortcut by wavebike. Chances are you won't even need to turn.

Weapon Rewards

Power Stone is very useful because of the bridge altitudes not blocking it outside. Star Crash is great for people on narrow places like bridges, although thinking back, it could've been Time Slow as I don't like people running away. The E-Tank is self explanatory. Sakugarne was just me thinking it would be hilarious to wavebike on it. Turns out I was wrong, but for the inside areas, it wreaks havoc. Outside, it saves you from Water Wave, though watch out for Dive Missile.

Even so, I could live without Sakugarne. Could be Time Slow instead.

- Let me add that the fact I created the map doesn't mean only I can maneuver the bikes. Hell, that's like saying only Nintendo devs can play on a 3DS because they made it. Practice a little, get used to the map.

Is it Wave Man Remixed? Do I care if I win or lose? ...

(click to show/hide)

However, people passing assumptions as facts is something I won't stand for. I respect opinions, but I'm allergic to bullshit. Good day.

[TailsMK4]

Finally, Wave Man. I was ok with the original stage, though the new wavebikes kind of made it hard to catch people. Maybe if we relied a little less on them...

#1: A strong first entry. The only thing I feel is a bit lacking on this map is actually the wavebikes themselves. Maybe a few more islands to go to? You pretty much can just ignore the middle of the stage entirely unless you spawn there. I liked how Beed used the pipes for travel, though.

#2: This stage felt really nice to play in. The way you get on the wavebikes confused me, but as soon as I understood how the stage worked, I liked how the wavebikes were used here. The only thing I think could use a little revision is actually inside. The water spouts and bubbles were nice, but the other paths that could be used to get to the top...felt out of the way. I'm not sure how it could be better...maybe place a few more goodies like health capsules?

#3: SmashBro believed this was just Wave Man Remix, but I saw a different stage entirely. The only thing on this map that looked even remotely like Remix was the very center of the map, and that's pretty much it. I liked the map in general, but I have an issue with the wavebikes. At least in Remix there was plenty of room while on the wavebike...but here...the rewards you get on the water are almost not worth it. At least you can eject anytime you want back on solid ground, but I do not dare try to make tight turns on this, especially when the corner I was trying to go around one time was cross-shaped. I would prefer a little more room for error, but the wavebikes seem more of a chore to use on this stage than in the original.

Final Verdict:

Yellow Devil > Knux > Beed >>> Old

Note how I liked Beed's map better than the old stage. I really liked all three entries, but I will have to give my vote to Yellow Devil because his stage to me felt the best. I feel he had the best use of the wavebikes. Without the wavebikes, it's just like another stage like the old Top Man.

[SmashTheEchidna]

Beed: I like this one. It just feels right. (No, this has nothing to do with how I won every time I went there.) I can't really say much else. I just like it.

Yellow Devil: This is like, whoa. I mean, whoa. I'm amazed. My ONLY complaint is that the wavebikes don't crash. I mean I understand why you went with the way you did, but it just doesn't feel the same.

Knux: This one's great too. It also feels more like how Waveman should be. If you make the wavebikes section a little wider and keep the better weapons/items/goodies in the water while leaving the mediocre ones on land, that should balance things out some more.

[King Dumb]

By far the hardest category for me to decide. Here we go!

Entry #1: Beed28
Really fun to play on this map with a huge Deathmatch server. I like how the two sides are both interesting to fight on but a very different. Both of of these areas are visually fun to fight around on, as well. The center island makes for some intense bouts as well, especially with the placement of some of the better weapons there. One thing I noted very quickly about this map is the sheer number of effective weapons. There are a lot of weapons, and nearly all of them are among the best. This isn't necessarily a bad thing because the map flows so quickly and so well, but just something to note.

Speaking of slow, the teleporting pipes and the straightforward wavebiking area make a great combination as it turns out.

I like how you incorporated a number of gimmicks to smallish degrees; none of them are too overbearing or centralizing. Unlike many others, I'm okay with wavebikes being so much less important than they are in the vanilla map; they're tedious anyway.

Entry #2: Yellow Devil
The vertical nature of this map's main playing area was a lot of fun. The center island was laid out very well to allow for paths up and down that weren't too complicated nor too boring. I love how this map inherently gives Water Wave a star role. The gameplay offered by the vertical as opposed to horizontal layout is fun and varied.

Like Beed's does, this map uses a number of gimmicks to aid in flow. The water spouts and bubbles work very naturally in this kind of a map. The bubbles,  however, just barely move fast enough to be viable in combat situations. Perhaps they could be sped up a tad to more useful.

Now, on to the Wave Bikes. The integration of the pipes into the main island is very fun, especially where the pipes go to higher levels. The bikes themselves are no longer tedious, which is nice, but also a tad underwhelming as it turns out. I don't really have a solution to this; maybe they could go just a bit faster? As for the outside areas, the lack of direct risk is (mostly) overcome by the brief albeit present time deficit created by going out there. I think that a lot more fun could be had out there if all the islands were connected, not easily but perhaps with some platforming.

Visually I love this map; great usage and variance of textures in the center island. Something tall like that could be in danger of making the eyes sore, but this map manages to keep it pretty manageable all the way to the top.

Entry #3: Knux
A huge improvement of MM5WAVX. This map was actually very fun to look around for me. I like the concept of combat areas on platforms above and wavebiking below. I think the concept could have been carried farther, however; for instance, that very tiny area by Power Stone where you ride your Wave Bike upwards a little bit was very cool, and would have liked to have seen more.

The size is pretty good. It maybe could have been a little smaller, but not a huge amount and it's fine as it is. I got the feeling there could have been more fit in to what is there now; for example, there were some areas where I thoughts ramps flanking a walkway above would be pretty (so that the wavebikes flies over the walkway).

The bubbles near the large energy and health pellent (ie, by Star Crash and E-Tank) don't come often enough. I wound up waiting and getting killed every time I tried using them in big DM games, until I realized you can just jump to those platforms without the bubbles. I'd raise those and speed the bubble spawning up a bit.

Visually I've few complaints. Looking out from a corner of the map, the top half seems a little flat, but in combat situations there is usually enough variation to be interesting. As it turns out it's hard to use Water Wave at times because of the railings (people mounting themselves on the railings).


All three of these entries were strong, and much more enjoyable than the current core map. I had good times playing on all of them, but Yellow Devil's map's layout and use of gimmicks appealed to me the most, so that one got my vote.

[Ivory]

Things have slowed down, so I'm going to be closing voting today around 9 PST.

If you want to get your input in, do so today.

[Beed28]

I would like to point out that my map has the best use of the textures (specifically look at the corner areas of the metalic textures in the map, mine's the only one that's put them together right).

[Ivory]

Beed, you realize textures are one of the last places I want maps to be voted on, right? I want maps voted on layout above all else. Weapons, textures, props, all that other stuff can be tweaked afterward. What map will best fit in being a core map is the key thing to judge on.

[Ceridran]

Yellow Devil>Beed>Knux

[-FiniteZero-]

YD>Knux>Beed>YD

...Wait.

[Knux]

I actually think it's like this: Beed > Knux > YD.

This is judging on how comfortable to fight it was on each stage.

- I actually like fighting in Beed's Wave despite the occasional hindering of Water Wave. It could probably do with less distance on wavebike from building to building. The best thing though, was that wavebikes were never abused as the map is straightforward. I just wish I could use Water Wave more, though.

- I know I always make it a point to make the RM weapon shine on it's own stage, but I probably overdid it in my map with all the flat ground. My guess is it was a lot of running for most people, despite the bike pipes being 100% safe if used for shortcuts (going straight) as most of them were placed in such a way that it would allow for it. Scorch Wheel is still available, though, and there's plenty of cover (I think?) despite the flat ground. Even then, there's homing weapons, which proved effective from distances (Dive Missile).

- Didn't like the idea of going up in YD's map, and the fact that most games turned into either "chase that player and stop him from getting Astro", or King of the Hill/Tower Defense. Not to mention every other weapon not named Water Wave was more useful. Unless of course, you're up there laying waste on others coming up. And despite having fun, I couldn't really see it as a core map.

- Core map, hello. You're fired. Box your stuff. Out the front door. Parking lot. Car. Goodbye. *hangs phone*

I guess that's it. Maybe I should post my general opinion about the rest of the compo maps...

EDIT: I dood it.

[Ivory]

Well then, now that the forums are back. Now I can officially close voting.

Thank you everyone who provided their input.