Rebalanced Class Saxton Hale (v4b)

[Superjustinbros]

Since this seems to be the most dominant Saxton Hale thread, I guess I could just post this here:

Aside from the "no more triple shot when the last survivor" crud is Cave Johnson's "lemons" not looking like actual lemons. They resemble more of something along the lines of "Acidic Combustable Lemon-Flavored Jello" because they're not 100% solid and inflict a stun on anyone that gets hit (hence the Acid part).
I could sprite a replacement graphic that makes them look more like solid lemons rather than gumdrops that spin around on a Y axis in the direction shot.

[Superjustinbros]

I know, double post and bump. But I have this to share.

If one knows how to take advantage of Woodman with Morshu as a hale, timing uses of Leaf Shield right, he can practically avoid every bomb Morshu flings at him, emerging without a scratch.

[Stardust]

Easy as pie. That's like fighting a Skull Man with Morshu. You can keep the bomb with you some time before it explodes, so just wait until the shield runs off to throw it.
If your normalfire is ready and your opponent's shield is too, get closer to your opponent to reduce the distance between Morshu and the shield user, so you can reduce your opponent's reaction time.
When enough close, takes the bomb on your head. If he uses the shield, just wait until he runs out and fire. If he doesn't, just get enough close and shoot at him so he has no time to use the shield.

[Superjustinbros]

If I remember, Woodman can hold up Leaf Shield longer than Morshu can hold a Bomb on his head. And it recharges quite quickly.

[Korby]

If the Woodman can reliably block every single shot the Hale has to offer through skill and skill alone, then he deserves to not die.

You make it sound like that the Hale, who is already hugely powerful, should not have anyone who's good against him.

[Linnie]

If the Woodman can reliably block every single shot the Hale has to offer through skill and skill alone, then he deserves to not die.

You make it sound like that the Hale, who is already hugely powerful, should not have anyone who's good against him.

In fairness, the Hale tends to lose the majority of games to the survivor.

[OtakuAlex]

Ironically, there's many classes that need nerffing, but the one that I would never think needed nerffing got a nerf.

Bubble Man.....The fact that his floating-energy/ammo runs out faster takes a lot of the fun out of his item and doesn't serve much purpose in helping the hales win when they can easily OHKO him as soon as it runs out no matter what.

Also, I think nerffing the survivors might not be the best solution, it's hard to nerf classes to how they should be, instead you should buff the bosses that are having trouble winning.

Those are just my thoughts on this though, you're the one who runs this show, so you can do whatever you want.

[MrL1193]

I haven't had much time to work on this lately, but I should have more time around Christmas. I do still have a few ideas I'd like to try out if possible, such as multiple boss difficulty levels.

Regarding the shield classes, you should note that Morshu actually can wait out their barriers at any time if he's desperate enough. If Morshu holds a bomb until it explodes on him, the cool down phase of his attack is bypassed and he can pull out another bomb immediately. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Skull Men get killed this way. Bubble Man has to have nerfed swimming because his normal swimming ability is game-breaking on maps with large underwater areas; it's not a perfect solution, but it's pretty much the best I can do for him, unfortunately.

[Linnie]

If Morshu holds a bomb until it explodes on him, the cool down phase of his attack is bypassed and he can pull out another bomb immediately.

Wait what? I didn't know that, thank you for telling me that.


MrL, I have to ask, are any Hale edits from Tails's version considered to be added to this version, with balance edits for classes of course?

[coolcat7022]

If Morshu holds a bomb until it explodes on him, the cool down phase of his attack is bypassed and he can pull out another bomb immediately.

Wait what? I didn't know that, thank you for telling me that.


MrL, I have to ask, are any Hale edits from Tails's version considered to be added to this version, with balance edits for classes of course?

The more you know! XD

[MrL1193]

MrL, I have to ask, are any Hale edits from Tails's version considered to be added to this version, with balance edits for classes of course?

Tails never liked the idea of adding YD's classes back to that version, so I figured copying material from it wouldn't be the best idea either. (Gilgamesh is an odd case; I believe he originated from Balrog's last version of Saxton Hale and was coded by someone else. He was only tweaked for Rebirth, and I personally would like to switch him over to the random-sword move set and make a few tweaks of my own, but I'm still a little uneasy about borrowing the material.)

In the mean time, I did manage to come up with a simple structure for handling multiple difficulty levels. Now it's just a matter of figuring out what do with each boss for each difficulty. I'm aiming to have 4 difficulty levels--the current setting, one easier, and two harder, with the difficulty changing depending on how the last few matches have gone. (I currently have it set to change after 3 consecutive wins or losses.) I probably won't be able to do anything too complex with the bosses, but if you have some ideas you feel would be interesting, by all means, mention them here.

[Goomba98]

I hope you do something about Yamato Man's alt, it's incredibly OP, especially against Morshu.

[OtakuAlex]

I hope you do something about Yamato Man's alt, it's incredibly OP, especially against Morshu.

Morshu is actually one of the hales that is pretty good against Yamato since he has ranged attacks and can stop the problem before it begins. Besides, Yamato's alt is only a weapon of mass destruction if you can dodge the hale's attacks well enough.

[Superjustinbros]

Say Mr. L, ever heard of the mappack "AMP-MP"? It's a good candidate for a mappack to replace CSCM, since I still despise pretty much every of the "Remixed" maps.

[MrL1193]

All right, I finally managed to upload a new version with added difficulty levels. Try it out and let me know what you think; this is only my first attempt, so feedback (particularly on individual bosses) is key. The difficulty is set to go up or down one level after 3 consecutive wins or losses.

For the whole long list of changes, see the spoiler in the first post. Aside from the difficulty changes, here's the (rather short) list of other things that were changed:

(click to show/hide)

SAXTON HALE:

Changed Guts Man's rune to Strength.
Fixed rage warning messages for secondary bosses.
Fixed Doc Robot not changing colors when hypnotized.
Added custom server variables to control the difficulty setting (dynamic, random, or only one difficulty) and which boss is chosen next round.


CLASSES:

Heat Man: Movement speed buffed slightly.
Needle Man: Needle Cannon's damage buffed slightly.
Toad Man: Rain Flush's damage buffed somewhat.
Yamato Man: Reduced power of alt, somewhat reduced movement speed (back to original values).