Otaku Alex's Workshop (RPG Mod V1c)

[Stardust]

By the way, QUALITY > QUANTITY.

Yeah, this is the wisdom. Truely honestly.

[Ceridran]

Nobody needs to "take the place of the removed bosses at once", as Rozark tried to make a point out of in the past.

I'm sick and tired of this feeding troth of a gamemode. "Saxton Hale" mode has become a bag of chips compared to a family dinner.

MM8BDM V2 and V3 used 8-bit converted forms of everything that was brought over from MM7 and MM8 to keep with the proper NES theme of this game, while "Saxton Hale" mode uses out of place sounds, music, and characters. I've said it alot, for quite some time, that this gamemode says "Screw NES theme!", but nobody got the point.

Teaparty Classes is removing alot of classes, and reworking alot of classes into fresh stuff, to reduce it's "mass amount of generic classes" status, while "Saxton Hale" mode is littered with memetic characters and clones!

[Linnie]

By the way, QUALITY > QUANTITY. Seriously, every single meme boss should be scrapped as well as Saxton Hale, whose job is better done by Scrooge McDuck, who fits in very well. All the meme bosses and Saxton Hale, they're all awful. Stick to famitracker/NES music, as well, don't give them voices/sounds that weren't on an NES game.

They're all awful? What are the specific problems with each one, specifically? Do you have constructive criticism on how to improve each one, or do you just want them scrapped? If it's the latter, do you have any justification beyond "they're from TF2?" And if so, do you think that justification is enough to remove a third of this game's Hales?

I know I'm being fairly biased, but don't you want to keep to MM8BDM's theme: the NES?

Actually, if you look at the list of Balrog's Hales, only 1 is from an NES game. 1 Hale, out of 14, is from an NES game, so I don't see the problem as long as the sprites for the Hale are 8-bit.

If you head for quantity over quality, you're trying to copy Action 52. A majority of the bosses are the same, just like a majority of Action 52 games are top-down shooters. Space shooters, especially.

I wouldn't say any two bosses are the same in SH, and even if you do, Otaku Alex has tried to further differentiate the melee Hales through giving them different ranges, speeds, and making some multi-hit kills (something I'm not fond of but am willing to give a try).

Oh, and they're "bosses", not "hales". Hale is the last name of Saxton. He's not Jango Fett, you know.

They're a specific type of boss in which FPS players battle against another player whose goal is to frag all of the other players. I think that's distinct enough to be called "Hale."

We're not Unholy here.



Overall, people have discussed the quality of the various Hales, and Hales have been changed and removed over time as a result. NeoDS was thought of as a bad Hale and he isn't around anymore. Same with Slender. People think Quote and Curly were too OP, so they nerfed them in some later versions. People didn't like Gilgamesh's 4-weapon system, so they reverted him, though people are considering trying to bring it back with adjustments to make it better. People do listen to majority feedback, and from it, we've gathered that most people don't find any problem with having Hales from TF2, and that most people think the TF2 Hales are of sufficient quality to be continued to be used.


Saxton has a melee and can turn invincible.
Sniper has a melee with a range weapon as a rage.
The Seemen are a bit less original in their individual functions, but that is supplemented by being a dual Hale.
Ninja Spy has the lives gimmick to distinguish it, as well as having a stealth aspect when he rages.

I think these Hales, while some are similar, are still distinguished enough for continued use.


I understand why you think we shouldn't have clones, but the solution to that is to think of ways to further distinguish said clones rather than removing them. Lego's Hale tanked because they removed all the old Hales for more generic ones, even if his coding was more organized.

[Ceridran]

I think these Hales, while some are similar, are still distinguished enough for continued use.

They're clones who are only different in their rage attacks.

Do you have constructive criticism on how to improve each one, or do you just want them scrapped? If it's the latter, do you have any justification beyond "they're from TF2?" And if so, do you think that justification is enough to remove a third of this game's Hales?

Yes, I am asking for Morshu and the Valve bosses to be scrapped. Don't bother trying to improve them: get rid of them. Ra Thor is tricky, but he can pass due to Megaman origins.

I can't stress enough how much a majority of bosses don't fit in.

1/3 (if not 2/3) of your very much so treasured bosses are memes.

Ninja Spy has the lives gimmick to distinguish it, as well as having a stealth aspect when he rages.

May I also point out that Ninja Spy's life gimmick is only aesthetic? It doesn't even change anything. His Stealth should be 100% stealth, toggled, fueled by rage meter, not requiring full rage. Actually, if you're implementing a boss from the NES/SNES era who can turn invisible, do that. At least none of the Valve related bosses should be in there.

He's a highly visible ninja. Highly visible ninjas are dumb.


..

By the way, before anybody suggests Shovel Knight, he would be a clone of Scrooge McDuck.

[Stardust]

Yes, I am asking for Morshu and the Valve bosses to be scrapped. Don't bother trying to improve them: get rid of them. Ra Thor is tricky, but he can pass due to Megaman origins.

I can't stress enough how much a majority of bosses don't fit in.

1/3 (if not 2/3) of your very much so treasured bosses are memes.

Some of them kinda are, yup. So...?

May I also point out that Ninja Spy's life gimmick is only aesthetic? It doesn't even change anything. His Stealth should be 100% stealth, toggled, fueled by rage meter, not requiring full rage. Actually, if you're implementing a boss from the NES/SNES era who can turn invisible, do that. At least none of the Valve related bosses should be in there.

Nah. At the moment Ninja Spy consumes another life, he becomes completly invincible for some seconds, hence the flashing on his body.
Full invisibility sounds a bit harsh to me... Even if Ninja Spy can still be seen, it's not easy to do so, really. And when you're in the core of the fight, he's sneaking around you.

[Ceridran]

Can somebody tell me why a ninja of all things is tankier than a tank?

EDIT: The life gimmick actually explains this fairly well: due to having multiple extra lives in store. If Sonic becomes a thing, he should get that.

Full invisibility sounds a bit harsh to me... Even if Ninja Spy can still be seen, it's not easy to do so, really. And when you're in the core of the fight, he's sneaking around you.

He's a spy who can use his cloaking device, disguised as a watch, to turn invisible. What did you expect?

[Superjustinbros]

People didn't like Gilgamesh's 4-weapon system, so they reverted him, though people are considering trying to bring it back with adjustments to make it better.

That idea is doomed from the start, unless you were to give Gil higher defenses and/or a truckload of HP to make up for everything missing or not killing in one shot and draw the weapons on the HUD so they actually look like they're extending out from the player.

Saxton has a melee and can turn invincible.

I preferred when he became "invincible" he only had increased defenses and didn't receive knock back from attacks.

Slender was just bad because it forced players to wait several minutes and it wasn't enjoyable not sing able to damage Slender. If his killquotes were removed and replaced with something you'd see on any other hale (i.e. "*Survivor Player* was viscously slaughtered by Slenderman (*Hale Player*)!) and was overall reworked into a standard melee hale that ran on both health and a timer, he could have a chance.

As for the whole "8-Bit Only" dispute, I personally don't care whenever or not a soundtrack in the game is 16-Bit or higher, or if we're using characters from the SNES era and beyond.

[Linnie]

They're clones who are only different in their rage attacks.

I don't see how having the same mainfires is bad. Almost all the TF2 Hales are melee, while MM8BDM uses a combination of melee and range Hales, making it better balanced but still traced back to Saxton Hale's roots.
 

Yes, I am asking for Morshu and the Valve bosses to be scrapped. Don't bother trying to improve them: get rid of them. Ra Thor is tricky, but he can pass due to Megaman origins.

I can't stress enough how much a majority of bosses don't fit in.

1/3 (if not 2/3) of your very much so treasured bosses are memes.

And...?

I don't see how being meme-ish is any bad. It's not like they're completely made-up on the spot like Unholy, even if they're memes they're still characters that come from a place. None of the meme-ish Hales are even overused as memes or anything.

May I also point out that Ninja Spy's life gimmick is only aesthetic? It doesn't even change anything. His Stealth should be 100% stealth, toggled, fueled by rage meter, not requiring full rage. Actually, if you're implementing a boss from the NES/SNES era who can turn invisible, do that.

He's a highly visible ninja. Highly visible ninjas are dumb.

I like Black?Star from Soul Eater. A lot of people like highly visible ninjas.

I think an early build of Ninja Spy made him invisible on rage, and that was proven too OP, so they made him transluscent.

At least none of the Valve related bosses should be in there.

Why? Is there any objective reason? Saxton Hale, the mode, is from a Valve game. If you want more NES/SNES Hales, you're free to suggest some and we might get more, and I think seeing more Megaman Hales/retro vidya Hales would be a good thing (I personally want Kung-Fu Cutman, but I think you'd hate that one because it's a meme), but I don't see the reason to get rid of the Valve Hales.

[coolcat7022]

Ok, this is starting to get out of hand, can we please settle? (NOTE: I know i am not a staff member, but i'm trying to soak the fire before the department is nessary, AKA i'm trying to end the argument before staff have to bring the judgement mallets.)

[OtakuAlex]

I'm OK if they debate on various features about Saxton in my thread, it leaves me less decisions to make and more straight out doing.
Also, I've actually had thoughts of replacing Ninja Spy with a Ninja from an NES game (OMG, ninjas on NES! I wonder what that could be, LOL.), but wasn't too sure if it would end up being a good idea. Besides, he already uses a song from that game in the current version.

[coolcat7022]

You could just do what was done with GentleSpy in turning him into NinjaSpy, you could just change skin/pallete, new music, and tweak his hud, though this new thought probably means a new rage...

[OtakuAlex]

OK, I've been working on the Sonic hale and it's finally ready.

(click to show/hide)

I'll put version V3a up so LD can host a server for everyone to play on after I make some more changes to the ACS.

[coolcat7022]

Ok!

[OtakuAlex]

Done, so here's the changes:

(click to show/hide)

*Hales get more HP than before due to high weakness damage and varying damage
+Sonic is now a playable boss.

Yeah, not a lot of changes, but at least we got a new boss to rape with various attacks

Anyways, I guess I'll get LD to host a server now.

[Linnie]

Noice. Any progress made on fixing Doomguy?