MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?

[The_Broker]

Eddie needs to go. This is the case for every CTF map. Just because the only spawn is in the center of the map does not excuse the harm Eddie can do to an otherwise good CTF game. Remove it, or replace it with SSW's version of Eddie.

please leave

this is discussion about the core game and how to improve it

[8:43:54 PM] Knux: I'm gonna ask this since it wasn't specified
[8:44:17 PM] Knux: Are we allowed to comment on core CTF maps in the comments thread?
[8:49:51 PM] Knux: Welp, saw a comment on one right after asking this, so I kept going.
[8:55:32 PM] Ivory: yea

It appears we can comment on CTF maps.

I wasn't sure about this myself, but CTF maps are fine to be commented on.

[King Dumb]

MMCTF11

Unfortunately, I have not been able to log nearly as much time playing on this map or MMCTF12 as I have been on the first 10 maps (which have been around much longer) and the competition maps, so I can't really know of any of the more subtle problems.

One suggestion I have hear involves the green stairs that lead from the lower, central path out of either base to near the boats and Drill Bomb. With experience, these stairs can be jumped in one just one jump pretty much effortlessly, but only for those who know when the jump (if you jump close to the first step, it sort of launches you up; this happens for any such setup, but for those who are unaware it's basically a less extreme version of the kind of heights you can pull of in MM4DIV by jumping next to pillars). Pursuers who are not aware of this jump are left behind almost entirely by the carrier if the latter makes that jump. In the time it takes to get up the stairs, the carrier is long gone towards their base. Since, theoretically, eventually everyone would be able to do this very easily, I suggest scrapping these stairs and replacing them either with steps (so you can just run up) or a slope (steps would be less intrusive on the rest of the map design, of course, since that section would not need to be lengthened as it would be for a slope.)

MMCTF15

Needle Cannon and Metal Blade being so near each other makes the former almost pointless (only almost, because it does remedy poor aim slightly.)

Ring Boomerang + 2 W-Tanks readily available in the base means immediate effective defense, especially with the flag being up against a wall. I would move Ring Boomerang to somewhere else in the map; perhaps switch it with Search Snake?

MMCTF16

I normally don't bother bringing up aesthetic issues, but one here stuck out in my mind. On the west side of the map, the two garages. The tops of these garages, right near Drill Bomb, are completely grey, with no texture/detail/lines, even where the surface bends. This is very unsightly and looks very out of place when everything else around has actual texture in its... texture. I just suggest giving the tops of these garages some detail, even if it's just lines at the turns in the surface to break up the grey.

There is a lot of empty space in the center area around Sakugarne. Much of the green space there is never traversed. I would suggest scrunching in this part of the map (and I guess the whole map, consequently) so the roads are just about right up against the first platform to Sakugarne. It's going out of your way to get that weapon. I would also suggest scrunching in that center area in the perpendicular direction too, a little bit. Closer action around the Sakugarne, and people can get in and out of there quicker when there is no competition.

Speaking of Sakugarne, I noticed it could be used to get out of its own pit more quickly if you fire-jump from the Big Ammo boxes and land on the tall fence directly above you. I would like to suggest lowering this fence ever so slightly, so that you can fire-jump from the lower boxes (right next to the double-layered boxes with Big Ammo on them) and land on top of the fence. That way, that little shortcut will be just that bit shorter, and maybe more people will notice it.

MMCTF17

Hard Knuckle actually isn't an incredibly good weapon in CTF, because, unlike in Duel or Deathmatch, your most serious targets will more likely than not be running away, and most CTF maps have long hallways for them to do so. This is also the case on MMCTF17. The projectile just isn't quite fast enough to be more effective than faster, weaker weapons... most of the time. In any case, getting Hard Knuckle in this map is not worth the time it takes (and, often the risk, since the bases in this map are quite vulnerable.) Even if it is effective on those stairs leading up away from the flag spots, Air Shooter does that job as well or better (due to higher RoF) and is much easier to obtain. In practice, I do not see more than one person with Hard Knuckle in the average match. I suggest replacing Hard Knuckle with something more useful, like perhaps Screw Crusher.

MMCTF18

I suggest changing the crushers in the bases so that they are operating in opposite time to each other, rather than in sync. So that when one crusher is all the way down, the other is all the way up. This way, attempting to leave the base that way is a little easier, but defenders can still use the crushers to their advantage because they will know which crusher a potential escapee will be heading for.

MMCTF19

This map has too many powerful weapons for its hallway theme. Ballade Cracker, Knight Crush, Pharaoh Shot, Laser Buster, Crystal Eye. I think Ballade Cracker and Laser Buster can get the boot.

Wire Adaptor is disappointing on this map (as it is on many other core maps, I might add.) Its only good use is for getting Ballade Cracker. The flag rooms have no ceiling, and, while it can be used away from the center in the Crystal Eye room, just jumping to Crystal Eye to get to the other side is almost as fast and often less risky. I suggest replacing Wire with Item-1, or removing it altogether.

Also, I still get an FPS drop when I walk into the Crystal Eye room (even offline.) Not sure if 3D Floor bridges would fix that or not, but it's worth looking into.

MMCTF20

Way too many weapons on this map (14.) For starters, Search Snake and Magnet Missile are pointless with all of the other options. Otherwise, I suggest just thinning it down, one way or another.

There is a copious amount of ammo near the flags. At best this is pointless, at worst it just increases stalling. I suggest reducing it considerably.

[Superjustinbros]

I find the more flatter maps (such as Turboman's stage) really need to have their heights increased. Like have an area on the roof of the garage in Turboman's stage just to help the map look a tad bit better.

[Knux]

What annoys me about MM7TUR is the fact that the stage wasn't even a racetrack to begin with. Most of the stage was a garage, and the outside areas were really short. The way the map is made right now is like asking for a bunch of accidents to happen. If the Turboroaders ran most of their path outside of the map, that would be great.

[Kapus]

What annoys me about MM7TUR is the fact that the stage wasn't even a racetrack to begin with. Most of the stage was a garage, and the outside areas were really short.

Well, to be fair, Ice Man didn't have much of an "underground portion" in his original stage, and that's roughly half his map in MM8BDM. He didn't have any deep water, either.

A racetrack still fits Turbo Man's stage, considering he's a race car of sorts.

[Knux]

Yeah, but having props getting in the way so much annoys me anyways. The stage can still have a racetrack, just not all over the play area, where it currently causes frags to drop and the match to be delayed in DM and grief in the rest of the modes.

[Megaman94]

I find the more flatter maps (such as Turboman's stage) really need to have their heights increased. Like have an area on the roof of the garage in Turboman's stage just to help the map look a tad bit better.

Like MM1BOM? That stage doesn't have that many different heights (besides where the Homing Sniper is)

[fortegigasgospel]

I would recommend a new item to replace Eddie instead. I had suggested the MM1 goal items either giving a random MM1 weapon or simply giving 1 random non-ctf broken item. The trade up would be that these items don't spawn anything, the simply give you the item on the spot.

[Kapus]

But...why?

[fortegigasgospel]

But...why?

That would be IF he was replaced. Forgot to add the "if"

[Megaman94]

There is a dead end I need to address is in MM4SKU

If you  have low health, there is no way you are making out alive.

[CopShowGuy]

But you get a good weapon.

[Kapus]

Skull Man does have a problematic dead-end in its map design.

That's not it, though.

[Megaman94]

But you get a good weapon.

But if you go in there with low health, you die and lose the weapon...

Skull Man does have a problematic dead-end in its map design.

That's not it, though.

I know which one you mean. The Skull Barrier room

[Kapus]

But you get a good weapon.

But if you go in there with low health, you die and lose the weapon...

High risk, high reward?

Do you want Ballade Cracker of all things just handed to you on a pedestal?