MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?

[SmashTheEchidna]

Wait, did you actually have a legitimate hookshot type of weapon/item that worked? Because I would love to see it, regardless of it being wire adapter or not.

[Ivory]

Well, not in wire adaptor. I just referring to wire adaptor being more aimable in the past. Magic Card was planned at one point to grab items, but it was rather complex to be practical to do, so it doesn't. (assuming it worked to begin with).

Anyways, this has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread.

[Jakeinator]

A map I really feel needs a rework is Flashman, the layout is fine, just expand the areas just a tiny bit and flow would be better, also like 1 more room/area would be really appreciated because when there's a really populated server, especially saxton, its just a complete shitfest because of its cramped, small size.

[Kapus]

Wait, did you actually have a legitimate hookshot type of weapon/item that worked? Because I would love to see it, regardless of it being wire adapter or not.

Thunder Claw actually worked similar to this back in really early stages of development. It was overpowered mobility-wise, but it was also a heck of a lot of fun.

[MusashiAA]

Oh, MM2FLA is fine. It might be cramped, but it's not anywhere as close to being current MM1CUT: THAT is a bad small-sized map. It's not that small-sized maps are a bad design (MM1FIR and MM3SPA come to mind), but I think expanding it a little bit won't hurt. Leave the layout intact, and just make the map a little bigger.

[Ivory]

So, as part of my new direction of providing forewarning; Bright Man has been placed on the mapping slaughter table for a complete layout revamp.

[Linnie]

That sounds fine, I'd recommend the previously stated idea of incorporating the glowing stairs from the Remixed map into this new layout.

[MusashiAA]

So, as part of my new direction of providing forewarning; Bright Man has been placed on the mapping slaughter table for a complete layout revamp.

I did that.

Hopefully the uphill battle concept still exists in new MM4BRI. I had no problems with that, it's the staircase navigation that is a pain.

[Knux]

I was going to discuss MM6CEN, but then I remembered Mike had mentioned something about modifying it. In any case, I think we can all agree that Centaur Flash surrounded by four W Tanks, no easy way up other than constantly jumping the big steps and a huge open area deserves a remake.

EDIT: Confirmed something's gonna happen to it.

[Gumballtoid]

A handful of points I compiled. If anyone feels like expanding on these, go nuts, but this is all I really have to say on them.

MM1BOM's symmetrical structure is a little strange. The map is fairly solid, but I often have trouble finding out where I am since both sides are identical, as far as I can tell.

MM2BUB is hands-down one of the most boring maps I can think of. This map is more like a maze than a place where you'd be fighting. I can never tell where I am, since it all looks nearly the same. There are also spinies in places that could do without them, but that's the least of my concerns.

MM4DIV, I agree with. The map is structurally boring and is almost entirely reliant on Dive Missile or Astro Crush in terms of weapon placement. Every time I play on that map, those two weapons overshadow all else.

The skybox in MM5GYR burns my retinas.

MM6FLA has a fairly solid layout, but it could definitely do with a little more breathing room. Instant-death oil pits in tight spaces is a bit much.

[Caprice]

Bright Man has been placed on the mapping slaughter table for a complete layout revamp.

I love you.

I did that.

I love you.

But yeah, like Gumballtoid said, MM2BUB isn't quite fun to play in. Maybe include some larger ground for fighting instead of having it all take place in straight hallways.

[Lagman]

I swear I'm the only person that actually likes current Waveman.

Nah, I love Waveman's stage. It's actually my third favorite one.

(click to show/hide)

1. Springman: I can't stop bouncing on those two walls that are so close together.
2. Knightman: You can't tell me you don't love the big green wall.
3. Waveman: Dem wavebike chases.

[Kapus]

1. Springman: I can't stop bouncing on those two walls that are so close together.

Jump.

[Linnie]

1. Springman: I can't stop bouncing on those two walls that are so close together.

Jump.

I think by "can't stop" he means he doesn't want to stop, since it was in his top three.

[King Dumb]

MM5WAV

I would set forth an argument about why the choice of this map as the Wave Man winner of the SWBT mapping competition was not sufficiently justified, but I will not, because I am certain it will be fruitless in this thread (but I still hold my position). Instead of comparing the current MM5WAV to what were potential options, I will analyze the current stage by itself.

I will begin with the least objectionable issue I have, and that is concerning the weapons. As Yellow Devil pointed out, MM5WAV features a huge variety of weapons, many of which overlap one another in terms of utility. For example, Dive Missile and Magnet Missile; Blizzard Attack and Thunder Bolt; Water Balloon and Water Wave. The weapon selection needs to be cut down considerably, both to reduce overlap and because such a large number of weapons is intrinsically undesirable. Additionally, Water Wave is both overshadowed (by Water Balloon, mainly) and intrinsically suboptimal on the current MM5WAV. The layout of both forts reduces the areas in which Water Wave may be employed effectively, especially the double-level floor. The Snake Man-like fort is more conducive to Water Wave usage, but the small and cramped nature of the fort makes it easy to escape from a Water Wave user. The best locations to use Water Wave are in the U-shaped hallways leading to and from the warp pipes, which I will discuss later.

The amount of weapons is a problem; inventory interference as well as functional overlap result from such a large number. It needs to be reduced, and Water Wave should be the most prominent weapon.


Secondly, the double-layered fortress. The bubbles are too slow and are obsolete because of the ladders on the sides, which are faster unless you dropped down through the warp pipe right when a bubble appears. They need to be sped up. Also, this fortress is trying to be a bit bigger than it actually is. The full second level gives a huge feeling of cramped-ness. I would suggest restricting the second floor to the the perimeter of the room and leaving more space in the middle for free fighting. To make this space more interesting (and to increase Water Wave usage) you could make the elevation gradually increase toward the back of the fortress.


The Ballade Cracker fortress is a little better in terms of feeling cramped. However, the pipes in this fortress are at the very sides of the main room, which means one side of them is extremely cramped. The placement of Gemini Laser at this location means it is common to see Gemini Laser kills between the pipe and the wall. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but this room would be a lot more interesting if the pipes ran across through the middle, going perpendicular to how they generally go now. As it stands now, the Ballade Cracker pillar is almost impossible to mount in a fierce Deathmatch situation, especially with those spikes immediately above. I don't even think Ballade Cracker is necessary on this map, so I would just scrap that entire set up. I think transverse pipes across the center of the room (with some right angles in them) and maybe one pipe that loops down from the ceiling (and is raised up from the others) would make this room a lot more fun. I would also just make the main room bigger so you can have pipes and still have some general combat space as well.


The U-shaped hallways leading to and from the warp pipe in both fortresses would be almost entirely negligible except for two reasons: they offer Blizzard Attack and Thunder Bolt, and the big health. After removing one of the aforementioned weapons, I would move it to a different location, and scrap the U-halls entirely. The main rooms of each fortress should be conducive to Water Wave use (as described above), and the warp pipes should be more visible from the main combat. The drop-off location in the other fortress should also be changed, as right now it's a deathtrap in fierce Deathmatch situations. I'd make the drop-off locations up some stairs near the back of the fortresses, and the teleporter locations should be moved to a new alcove in the front wall of the fortresses; this means that it's harder for someone to just keep teleporting between fortresses.


Now, the wave bike section. These were my least favorite wave bikes out of all three Wave Man replacement contenders, because YD's were less frustrating and more enjoyable in utility (entering pipes to different levels of the tower, riding ramps to weapons on the outskirts) and Knux's were more fun as well (using ramps, navigating buildings, etc). These wavebikes are meant only to travel to and from the center island and between fortresses, so here's what I suggest (this is something that I know Messatsu has thought about as well):

Each fortress should have 4 wave bike pipes. The two inner pipes will directly face two pipes on the center island. The two outer pipes will directly face the out pipes of the opposite fortress. That way, you can get in an outer piper to travel to the other fortress, or an inner pipe to travel to the center island. The purpose of the pipes directly facing each other is to allow for "wave bike jousting" so some wave bike combat remains. You should be able to speed up, slow down, and jump in the bikes. The pipes themselves should be changed to work like the pipes in YD's Wave Man map (you run into them instead of jumping into them/hitting a wall).

The center island should be changed a bit. The towers that Bass Buster and Magnet Missile sit on should be pushed farther toward the sides (to make a direct line between the outer wave bike pipes of the two fortresses). Since you can't get to these items by crashing into the towers, add some 3D floor platforms to reach them from the center island. The center island itself should be inverted (lowered center instead of raised center), with something valuable in the center of the lowered part.