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Author Topic: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?  (Read 54084 times)

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November 08, 2013, 08:21:06 PM
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Offline Ivory

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MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« on: November 08, 2013, 08:21:06 PM »
Hey all you Mega Man fans! You ready for the dev team to try something new?

The dev team does try to improve upon older maps, but it's apparent not everyone has the same kind of feelings on a map. Even if the majority of the dev team agree on one thing, the community may have a different opinions. In order to make for a more friendly and agreeable outcome for a better MM8BDM, we'll be trying something new.

We're asking you, the community, to provide feedback on MM8BDM core maps and any sort of changes that you feel should be made. Then we can take it into future consideration. I hope this sounds fair.

Just a few rules/guidelines to follow:
    If you want your opinion to be considered, then have some reasons to back you up. Just saying "Map X sucks, change it" doesn't tell us anything.
    Generally, we'll be looking for a majority preference. The more voices which share a similar opinion is more likely to be considered than just a single voice.
    Suggestions/Recommendations are always helpful. Have an idea on how to improve a map? Then share it.

=============================================================================

Now, to kick this off. I will be revealing two changed maps. One of which was had a few pages dedicated to it, the other is an example of where a tiny change led to a larger impact. In both cases, I'm trying to showcase the idea of how to discuss a map and how to go about discussing the faults that you feel should be addressed.

So first off: Cut Man. It's goal was to be the introduction map to MM8BDM's gameplay. A simple, safe map where you can learn the rules of the game and get a grasp of basic concepts. Nonetheless, this map didn't actually do its job too well, it was a bit too small and symmetrical. It also wasn't really that fun to play on ever. So I ended up building onto it and the dev team liked it. Even Mike who was previously against it. We were going to save this for a surprise originally, but I just know that this map is going to be brought up.
(click to show/hide)

So the matter of business was to keep the idea of the level being the world 1-1 of MM8BDM. It's still a safe level, easy to understand layout, but it's more complex now. It's not 4-way symmetry and it makes the sides more distinctive. The weapon set continues to use easier to pick up and understand weapons that teach basic weapon concepts. Freeze Cracker shows off weapons that have some kind of behavior when they hit something. Bubble Lead teaches about ground hugging weapons and concepts like that. It also puts Rolling Cutter into a new location which makes it feel more like "Cut Man's weapon" rather than Atomic Fire feeling like it has more importance than Rolling Cutter itself. In general, while still a small level, it's a more fun level than the aged old original map.


The next map I will show off is Drill Man. There are some mixed opinions on this map, but in my opinion, it's a nice small sized map with a gimmicky power weapon focused gameplay. This map however had one fatal flaw that I wanted to address. Regardless of how many players, whether a duel or 8 players, that teleporter was a liability and risk to use. It was more likely to get you killed, whether it was by a telefragger or someone who happens to be on the other end. And this was actually the very first map change I personally did for v4a. So how did I go about fixing this?

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, not really much to it? Got rid of the teleporter, punched a hole in the wall instead. As far as our v4a testing has concluded, it improved the map flow a great deal and halted all the risk involved in jumping through a teleporter just go past a wall.

November 08, 2013, 08:26:26 PM
Reply #1

Offline FTX6004

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 08:26:26 PM »
I love what you did to Cutman's stage.

November 08, 2013, 08:29:51 PM
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Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 08:29:51 PM »
MM4DUS is that one map I always dread playing on. The crushers are incredibly unforgiving if you don't shoot underneath at just the right moment, and the confined, claustrophobic feeling I get when I play on that map is just additional deterrent. The layout is solid, but it could do with a little more breathing room if you ask me.

November 08, 2013, 08:32:25 PM
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Offline Orange juice :l

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 08:32:25 PM »
Drillman's teleporter was the one thing that added strategy to the map. It'd go from a map with an interesting, yet natural, gimmick to a map that's oppressively flat with a braindead weapon selection. I'd much rather see Centaurman's two way teleporter go, but that map's probably going to be overhauled entirely.

Also, I agree with Gumballtoid. The crushers would be somewhat reasonable if you didn't have to jump out of them. Such a claustrophobic map, paired with the weapon selection, needed to be extended (or perhaps scaled up) far more than other "small maps" like Gemini or Magnet.

November 08, 2013, 08:58:53 PM
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Offline Rozark

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 08:58:53 PM »
Quote from: "Gumballtoid"
MM4DUS is that one map I always dread playing on. The crushers are incredibly unforgiving if you don't shoot underneath at just the right moment, and the confined, claustrophobic feeling I get when I play on that map is just additional deterrent. The layout is solid, but it could do with a little more breathing room if you ask me.

The frequency of the crushers/waiting on them to move up and down just for that split second cross- that's too long in a small map with a frantic pace. Alternative pathes, the map being larger, or a better timeframe to cross the current pathes could be things to look at.

Also, that dead end in skullman isn't healthy. A room such as that really needs another way in/out.

November 08, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
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Offline Ivory

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 09:01:02 PM »
I guess I should mention that MM4DUS has been a map we looked at, and worked on. I'm not going to show it off as of now, various changes have been done to it to improve the map flow.

November 08, 2013, 10:02:11 PM
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Offline Beed28

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 10:02:11 PM »
One map I would like to see overhauled is Crash Man. The entire map is just bland narrow "valleys" (or crevices, or whatever) with no distinctive landmarks. I would love to see the moving platforms make an appearance in some way, and maybe put some Tellies in the background like in Heat Man to liven the place up.

November 08, 2013, 11:52:31 PM
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Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 11:52:31 PM »
Time for me to use the listing. Of course, I'll discard maps that you showed here and on the other thread since they have been redone and I will also not mention small maps that are obviously small and do need some play area increase.
* MM1BOM - The map isn't that bad, but encourage too much of "cat 'n mice": it's a flat map with just a "cross" centre that hardly changes the gameplay. Also, the four central walls do look like one could get on it, but inviz walls blocks. Perhaps those areas could be some sort of towers?
* MM1ICE - Something about it being "two levels" makes me uncomfortable. But my main idea here would be that the lower parts of the "towers" could be some sort of ice cave that has a way to lead you to the lower level (if the "two levels" are kept).
* MM1FIR - Just a bit too small. Perhaps add something to the area around the teleporter exit(s), like an area where you have to do some jumps in order to get an item or go from teleporter exit A to teleporter exit B. Something involving that lava pit outside.
* MM2BUB - divide that map into two sections: underwater middle section and the "outside" section without water but perhaps with some tricky platforming on 2 of the 4 corners.
* MM2FLA - More area and less "bumping into things while running on the wet floor" (By that I mean: less columns in the middle of the stage).
* MM2MET - Just extend the "gear maze" and "conveyor corner" a bit. Just to make them a little more interesting. Overall, the map seems to be fine.
* MM2DW1 - I know of an easter egg it could use... Involving shooting a dragon and a certain music everyone knows. OKKUSENMAN! OKKUSENMAN!
* MM3NED - Add a needle trap maybe?
* MM3SPA - Perhaps "junk blocks" could fall from some pipes.
* MM4BRI - NEEDS.TO.BE.REDONE.URGENTLY. Seriously, it is a TERRIBLE map. Split it into three areas and have ONLY the middle section be affected by the Blackout but still allow you to see something to tell you that you are facing stairs or ledge. over 3/4 of the players in it end up dying because of an INVISIBLE PIT in the dark.
* MM4SKU - MAP01? Really? Why not make it based on E1M1 instead?
* MM4DUS - Crushers. They need more delay before they descent upon the unfortunate player.
* MM5GRA - Less "gravity flip" and more "gravity areas". By this I mean some area should have normal gravity, others should have halved gravity, and another ones should have doubled gravity. Currently this map is more of a gamble than actual skills.
* MM5STA - Perhaps a "pipe" connecting the indoors areas at some point while an asteroid storm could happen once in a while in the outside area, but nothing too serious.
* MM5CRY - Two of those three areas could be merged into one, while the last area could be accessed by teleporter or "pit". The merging point could perhaps be a drop with ladders.
* MM6CEN - Add the playable "waterfall" area and I will be okay with it.
* MM6PLA - Is still looking like a simple "Capture the flag" map. Could use some more area and even the springs or "platform flowers"
* MM6FLA - What was the name of those "cloud platforms" that could safely carry you over oil and flame again? They could be useful if this map was larger...
* MM6WIN - It's being reworked, right? Because it has that one dead end.
* MM7CLO - Please make it so the "wind" only pushes you if you are jumping.
* MM7TUR - Could use some map height. A second floor and higher sky would be REALLY nice.
* MM7DW2 - I see what you did there, but this map is just awful. Too much of "cat 'n mice" and the turtle looks like it suffered the same fate as Frogger.
* MM8FRO - The snowboard jumping sections are very unreliable, requiring a precision in jumping that is almost absurd. That and the snowboard sections are absurdly small and unnecessary.

I know it is a long list, but I honestly don't care if more than 3/4 of those are ignored. But that Gravity Man and Bright Man NEEDS to be redone

November 09, 2013, 12:23:46 AM
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Offline Knux

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 12:23:46 AM »
Right, MM7TUR. If we were to look at Nemu's map (Harvest) from the Halloween expansion, we'd notice that despite the fact that Turboroaders are in the map, they aren't always where players can get run over by them. Why, if MM7TUR needed some kind of change, this would be the hint to take for it.

November 09, 2013, 12:33:18 AM
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Offline Linnie

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 12:33:18 AM »
I'm not going to go over every map, I'll just mention some of the ones that come to my attention.

MM1CUT, I don't want to change, but I'm not going to fight it because I know it's a fight I'd lose.

MM2CRA I also wouldn't want to be changed, it's a good size and not too complicated, but some aesthetic additions like Tellies would work well.

MM2HEA I also don't want to see go, but I know that's a second battle I'd lose so I won't pursue.

MM4BRI I think is good for the most part but has one fatal flaw; the absolute darkness. I think if you copied from the MM4BRIX map and had the front of the stairs light up during darkness, it would improve the map tenfold.

MM4DUS, it's already been said and I definitely agree.

MM4SKU, ecch. It needs to be more open, not as in "every room connects to every room" but things like the infamous dead-end room need to be changed.

MM5GYR and MM5CRY are both not that great, the former being 2big4me and the latter relying too heavily on teleports, but I don't see any way that could be remedied so I won't push either of those.

MM6WIN I want to stay the same (besides the dead end getting fixed) and I am going to push this one. I think the map is great, a good compact size, and turning it into a bigger multistory map is just, no. No. To replace a great map is something I can't agree with, no matter how good the replacement is. That screenshot of the proposed new MM6WIN does look nice, but it's more fitting of a Remixed map, not to replace the core.

MM6BLI, mostly fine, but I'd make the icy blocks not icy, and maybe add some ice to the cave area to supplement.

MM7's map I can't think of any complaints.

MM8AST could use some simplification, I know it's supposed to be warp-y and all but it's rather confusing to navigate and even after months of playing I still get lost.

MM8SWO I also feel is a little too large, but that might just be the abundance of lava, maybe shrinking the pool of lava in the middle would be enough.


That's all I can currently think of, I'll add more if I think of any more

November 09, 2013, 12:55:57 AM
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Offline Sir Lemon

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2013, 12:55:57 AM »
I actually loved MM4BRI. I'm gonna' dive for cover now.

Okay, I better say something to defend it. It is a difficult map, sure but you make a run for that Beat Call and you're golden. It's alright in gametypes like Deathmatch and Duel because the darkness adds a strategic element and an advantage to anyone who memorized the layout. So, yeah, I'm guilty of knocking out the light to give myself an edge.

I love all the stairs and corners in the map, too. Using Knuckle when people jump, using Cutter on a stair while making a retreat and throwing Scorch Wheel down on people at lower levels.

It really does seem like everyone hates this map but me. So perhaps some form of change is necessary. Just saying that I really adore this map, I almost love it as much as MM3SPA.

November 09, 2013, 01:49:18 AM
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Offline Rozark

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 01:49:18 AM »
Since when did Diveman have to be completely underwater? I feel like there's wasted potential there.

November 09, 2013, 02:41:10 AM
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Offline Ukiyama

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 02:41:10 AM »
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Since when did Diveman have to be completely underwater? I feel like there's wasted potential there.

*cough, up and down water, cough*

But yeah, the actual stage in the game, Dive Man had a area above the water. Granted it wasn't much but it could give a bit more flavor to the map.

November 09, 2013, 05:08:59 AM
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Offline Korby

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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 05:08:59 AM »
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
* MM2DW1 - I know of an easter egg it could use... Involving shooting a dragon and a certain music everyone knows. OKKUSENMAN! OKKUSENMAN!

I'm gonna go ahead and say that this is probably the least likely of all music things to happen.
Changing the music to a remix of the same song wouldn't make much sense, especially when it would have to be 8-bit.

November 09, 2013, 06:41:08 AM
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Re: MM8BDM v4 What maps do you feel need work?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 06:41:08 AM »
I hereby vote against changing MM2FLA.
To me it is one of the most fun maps around because it is sort of small but not overly crowded. And it is a fun duel map.
And the teleporter is never really spammed on all that much, either.