Stardust's Workshop

[Stardust]

Sorry but, due to Otaku's loss of interest of working on SH anymore, the merge is cancelled. Eventually Doom Guy might get in, but that's pretty much all-
To compensate for the lack of new hales, I'll be making two or three new ones on my own. The first one of them is already planned and is Megaman-related... and/or Capcom-related, that's for sure.
However, for the two other ones, I only have some poor ideas. So ; if you have some requests of hale characters, OR of hale gameplay concepts (because yeah, the way a hale works may in some cases be more interesting that the hale itself), fire 'em away~
Other than that, according to how hard these hales will be complex, I might release the next version sooner or later.

[Emmanuelf06]

Ah, you can't add Sonic?....it could be fun.....too bad for Otaku Alex :/

[coolcat7022]

I have a request that never made it.... The pyramid head man.... No wait, he was made to replace slender..... Well, just see what you could use the character for, hale wse.

[Legtendga]

Here are some suggestions for boss balance, because why not.

PO Roll:
Give her a reasonable range, and
Rage shouldn't heal. Oh man.

Mudkip:
Hitbox and rage aside, this is pretty good.
But the rage. I mean, geez. Let's start over with that. Or at least no healing; increase health to compensate.

Dio-Flash:
Super solid, save the rage.
Rage is "Eh..." as it just gives him a free killor two. I, again, do not know an alternative.

Remilla:
Overall inoffencive.

Unknown Robot Master:
I really enjoy this concept, But:
Item: Same, but spawned enemies should have less health, particularly Metools. Increase the charge rate to compensate.
Rage: This Needs to be reworked entirely. He could just get a scrap gun ala Classes DustMan, or something of the like.

Genesis Unit:
-Mega Water aught to be able to shoot harpoons at all times, perhaps as a second weapon.
-Hyper Storm should spawn Metools some how for general untility. Or not.
-Buster Rod is way too frail. He could also stand to have somthing akin to YamatoMan's spinning spear attack from classes, as he does that in the game. AND HE SHOULD BE ABLE MOVE AND SHOOT.
Rage: I don't even know where to start, nor what to do.

[Stardust]

Thanks for posting those,
The PORoll case at the beginning was to simply bring her back, because nostalgia. Eventually, with some fixing (I heard something bad could happen if you use the healing rage when it's already active... like infinite healing or something.) It's until some weeks ago I noticed her range was clearly bigger ; or at least, the attack had a bigger hitbox. I'm not sure if Silversin gave her this range on purpose (to rebalance her health for instance ; most melee hales's formula is about ~210 HP for each player, whereas on her case, it was ~155 HP.) Still it's planned to be reverted back to a normal Fist range =)
Toward the healing, I'm just wondering why so much complaining when it comes to defensive skills instead of overwhelming power.
It's okay to have a deadly attack such as Rocket Punch and its large radius which kills tones of survivors, but recovering a bit of health sounds like it's the end of the world. And even though, it recovered 400 HP in Silversin's Saxton&Friends, I halved this amount, and it's even more nerfed in v2A... is the HP recovering big as two/three hard knuckles that impossible to take away ? ;_.
Besides, she receives a way faster fire rate and a slight armor, it's also offensive. This joins Mudkip's rage, Treecko heals about 80HP if the sun is on, half if it's not. A single silver tomahawk hit takes almost this healing out :
However, the invisible hand of God might steal some health from Mudkip's allies and give them to Mudkip, as they seem to have a lot, and the hale itself hasn't enough.

Dio's rage is being kept like that, tips for avoiding this are probably the same as when fighting the Flash Man class (YD/JC). The freezing can't be fixed ; it might sounds wrong, but it's not actually THAT easy to rekt with Za Warudo, for the hale, these 9 seconds are fairly short actually, and then there are several factors which make the rage harder to success (a moment of stop before casting it, Dio being slowed down when freezing, etc.)

UNRM's rage initially was supposed to simply attract, allowing him to punch and recycle the victims. After I noticed they enjoyed raping him with Star Crash or Sakugarne, I gave him a damaging surrounding to prevent them from melee'ing him to death. I barely see him with a distant gun 8D

And the Genesis Unit is the hale where most propositions were accepted. In a nutshell, the trio is more polyvalent : Buster will get more staying power, Mega will be more offensive, and Hyper will be less of a fatass, I'll give more in deep details at the v2 release--
Oh and also some mettaurs may come from the blast of Hyper's giant rock blast on occasion

[Legtendga]

What about the enemy spawning edits for UKRM? I really don't like them having that much health.

[OtakuAlex]

I agree with Legtendga about the enemy HP, you should lower it a little. (maybe in exchange for faster charging...?)

[Stardust]

Oops my bad, I forgot about that, yeah I reduced their health. All of them have lower health, like lowered by 20% or so
But hey, it's actually easy to destroy a Sniper Armor within seconds if all of the players are attacking him to death :o

[Legtendga]

Yus. I like the sound of that. Is the charge rate increased or is it the same?

Also, please consider moving this forum to just "Projects" if you can, it's a bit buried as it stands right now.

[Stardust]

Eh I kinda prefer to have the charge rate kept as it is now, without slowing it down. He would be more polyvalent if he summons regularly but weakly, instead of a super-powaful monster every full moon.

I wish I knew too D: I'll ask my fav admin if he can do it for me.

Oh and hey it's been some months and I rarely posted any progress about v2...
V2 is *approximately* half made. The new skype group motto is "slowly but surely", and I hope it will be hard enough to be a very interesting update, it's like the v6g to v7a update of YD classes ha ha.
Not spoiling everything yet, but 3 new hales are planned (lesser but better), and one is done already. The update isn't only about this, it will add lots of rebalancements for most hales, graphic/audio changes (like SH's skin made by Diego, Sniper's skin of FTX, etc.), even minor, or in some cases, major gameplay remakes. All of these features are done already, we just need to find an interesting concept, and code these 2 remaining hales and it should be 'kay.

[Legtendga]

Would you concidered a V1H release to implement the rebalances of the existing Hales? Also, Tails said that the ++ bosses could be in other mods only after V2 releases.
Hey, you got the move!

[TailsMK4]

I will just say this to avoid any confusion regarding my mod: I currently do not have permission to use the bosses from ++, and never will unless Stardust gives her approval. My stance has changed after talking with her some more regarding her hales.

[Legtendga]

Sorry about my wording, that was intended to be more of a question. I knew that it wouldn't happen without her allowing it, so I had said that with the intent of seeing if that was her plan.

[MrL1193]

Incoming wall o' criticism:

(click to show/hide)

Toward the healing, I'm just wondering why so much complaining when it comes to defensive skills instead of overwhelming power.
It's okay to have a deadly attack such as Rocket Punch and its large radius which kills tones of survivors, but recovering a bit of health sounds like it's the end of the world.

Aren't you the one who nerfed Saxton Hale's rage from full invincibility down to just decreased damage and knockback? You should understand, then, why people don't like moves that only serve to draw out and prolong matches. (And there have already been enough complaints about matches being too long and stall-ish as it is.)

And even though, it recovered 400 HP in Silversin's Saxton&Friends, I halved this amount, and it's even more nerfed in v2A... is the HP recovering big as two/three hard knuckles that impossible to take away ? ;_.

I think it's time to apply a little math here. By my calculations:

Amount healed by Roll during a typical rage: ~287 (7 health every 17 tics for 700 tics)
Number of hits that must be endured to reach full rage: 63

Therefore, amount of damage per hit that is negated by the rage it fuels: ~4.56

Assuming an average of 18 damage per hit (because we don't always get a nice strong weapon or have enough ammo to use it exclusively and Hard Knuckle is an extreme case anyway), that's around 25.3% damage being recouped!

Now let's look at how much health she gets including the healing. Roll starts with 383 base health plus 180 per opponent. Her constant healing essentially raises that by...let's say 30%. (If every hit counted toward a usable rage, it would be ~33.9%.) If we apply that to her starting health, that gives a result of 497.9 plus 234 per opponent. To put that in perspective, consider the fact that Saxton Hale himself (who has fairly high health even by melee boss standards) gets only 500 plus 235 per opponent!

Now, mind you, this is all assuming that the survivors are being fairly prudent in choosing their weapons. Seeing how close this puts Roll to Saxton Hale in overall resilience, that suggests to me that this would be reasonable if the survivors would (or could) do this every time. However, if they start using stuff like rippers, land numerous glancing blows with explosive weapons (Crash Bomb and Flash Bomb come to mind), or simply run out of ammo for their powerful weapons and switch to the buster, things start going downhill fast. And in my experience, that happens very often--not everyone is experienced enough to use the proper tactics against Roll, and the RNG is not always kind enough to provide a good powerful weapon to fight her with.

Besides, she receives a way faster fire rate and a slight armor, it's also offensive.

And that is where this particular rage really falls flat. How often is an opponent stupid enough to linger within attack range after evading your first attack so you can immediately try for the kill again? And how often are you even able to react and adjust your aim so quickly as to make use of the increased rate of fire? The advantage offered by increased rate of fire is already underwhelming as it is, and once Roll's broken range is fixed, it will be even less useful. It is not a useful offensive tool; it just serves to prolong matches, and it's quite a boring rage to boot. There have got to be more interesting rage ideas out there.

This joins Mudkip's rage, Treecko heals about 80HP if the sun is on, half if it's not. A single silver tomahawk hit takes almost this healing out :
However, the invisible hand of God might steal some health from Mudkip's allies and give them to Mudkip, as they seem to have a lot, and the hale itself hasn't enough.

Treecko has a nasty tendency to slice up anyone who gets close enough to attack it. Usually, Treecko survives long enough to heal Mudkip several times--and it's even possible that Mudkip will gain enough rage in the meantime that by the time Treecko goes down, Mudkip is ready to summon its allies again. And, of course, there's the issue of Mudkip potentially deciding to just hide or run away while waiting to be healed--and it has ranged attacks and a small hitbox to boot.

Dio's rage is being kept like that, tips for avoiding this are probably the same as when fighting the Flash Man class (YD/JC). The freezing can't be fixed ; it might sounds wrong, but it's not actually THAT easy to rekt with Za Warudo, for the hale, these 9 seconds are fairly short actually, and then there are several factors which make the rage harder to success (a moment of stop before casting it, Dio being slowed down when freezing, etc.)

Flash Man needs to get close to freeze you and definitely can't one-shot you with his main attack--and even then, he's often criticized as a zero-effort class. Dio takes it to ridiculous levels by being able to freeze you anywhere and having more than enough time to stroll up and one-shot you at his leisure. It says a lot about this rage that even the Exit Unit is usually not enough to save you. (Dio doesn't even have an audio tell when he's about to freeze time, which is probably why I've never seen a player spot the imminent rage and teleport away before being frozen. And if you're close enough to see him preparing the rage and you don't have the Exit Unit, you are not going to be able to get far enough away to be safe.) Dio usually scores multiple frags with each rage and there's nothing the survivors can do about it. A good rage should be difficult but not impossible to evade, and should allow the survivors to actually influence their own chances of survival. This one is just inexcusable.

The rest:

The proposed changes to the Genesis Unit sound good, and mind you, I do like Dio Flash, even though I still have a very low opinion of his rage (which also can cause slight music glitches, by the way). Remilia and The Unknown Robot Master also have some potential; I'll be interested in seeing what comes of this.

[Legtendga]

This happens almost every time that I fight against Mudkip. It's no fun.

Oh man, thank you for having the same concerns and articulating them better than I could. I agree whole-heartedly with that analysis.