Stardust's Workshop

[MrL1193]

No one's clamoring for Akuma because he has 1 million HP or something.

That and the many other unfair things about him could still be fixed with a liberal enough application of the nerf hammer.

Dio doesn't really seem that overly challenging really. It isn't a 50-50 for sure, but it isn't a 90-10 in the Hale's favor either.

I'm fine with that ratio for a secret boss. I'm not fine with it for a regular boss. If the boss is intended to be a normal one, then you're obligated to fix that ratio if it becomes obvious that it's skewed to one side. (But again, that would make Dio Flash less awsumz, right?)

The same thing applies though. Secret bosses are secret, you rarely seem them show up. So why would you make the normal bosses all the boring ones? A secret boss should feel like an accomplishment yes, but you don't want to actually accomplish that if all your bosses are "look at me ma I'm exactly like Saxton himself just with a different face!!11"

I dunno, that seems like a pretty basic principle of gaming and life itself to me--you put in effort doing the less interesting things so you can get to the good stuff that you were actually looking forward to. Why else do people get up at 7 AM to go to work every day? Now, mind you, it would be ideal for the run-of-the-mill stuff to also be interesting in its own right, but you're still mainly working toward a specific goal--and you wouldn't be working at all if the goal weren't worthwhile. In fact, you don't even have to accept the goal if you don't want to--in this mod, if you decide that you don't want to fight secret bosses, you can simply suicide or spectate at the end of otherwise perfect rounds so that the secret bosses never appear. And if the secret bosses are the ones that are "Saxton himself just with a different face," then you can bet that people will start doing that sort of thing.

[Dr. Freeman]

I honestly think outside of op Akuma, secret bosses are really unnecessary. But while working for a goal is fine...this is a multiplayer game that you can jump on at anytime. Not everyone has the time to hang out for like an hour to go for these goals and can only play 1 or 2 games. Gaming should never feel like a job, games are a break from work, not just another chore. It feels satisfying enough beating a challenging hale as it is, praying to god that people won't die just to get a secret boss isn't even a goal. You said it yourself, someone could spectate or suicide and ruin the whole thing for you. There's no working for a goal if people jeopardize it.

Though this whole thing isn't exactly the point I'm going for. It's not so much a case as "move the boring bosses to secret or to normal" but more of a "how about we either get rid of the boring bosses, or make them interesting?"

[MrL1193]

Well, yes, you could question the need for secret bosses as a whole, since it seems to be complicating things quite a bit. I wasn't trying to open that can of worms; I was just trying to take advantage of the way the current structure allows for bosses that are more powerful than normal. (Which I guess would be the downside to getting rid of secret bosses; you couldn't have a tough boss like un-nerfed Dio because it just wouldn't be fair.)

I've honestly never been a fan of the perfect round requirement, really. As has already been stated, people can ruin them by spectating or suiciding, and besides that, some bosses by nature are particularly good or bad for getting perfect rounds. (Guts Man G comes to mind.) Back when I first suggested the idea of making Dio a secret boss, I also suggested making the "unlock" requirement be based on consecutive wins rather than perfect rounds (not quite foolproof, but still more fair, I think), but it was refused on the grounds that "You have to get perfects to see Akuma in Street Fighter, so the same should apply here." (This was back when the other secret bosses could only be chosen by the host of the server.) The most recent update is at least a little more reasonable about it by not requiring the perfect rounds to be consecutive, but I still think consecutive wins would be a better alternative.

Again, I'm not saying that we should have "boring" bosses and "fun" bosses. It would be wonderful if every boss could be as fun and unique as Dio, but there's a difference between our ideal goal and what's realistically possible. So for now, I'm just trying to suggest ways to work with what we've already got, and maybe someday we'll eventually have all the bosses fixed and fleshed out to be fun and unique in their own ways.

[Linnie]

You know, since we're talking about OP Hales becoming secret, why not do that with Unknown Robot Master? His minions combined with that powerful, 500-cost rage make him unfair to fight, and unlike Dio he doesn't have that awesome factor that makes Dio fun anyway.

[Ceridran]

he doesn't have that awesome factor that makes Dio fun anyway.

you have to be joking

[Linnie]

I'm not. There's something about Dio's style that just makes him fun, like other people have described earlier in the thread.

Being sniped by 50 near-invincible Mettaurs is not fun.


I don't expect URM to change the OPness of the summons (because it is hard to balance, after all; too low and people will just divebomb the enemy to kill it before it hits), though putting him in the secret Hale pool would make his OPness more justified.

[LlamaHombre]

I don't really find too much problem with his summons - it's mostly his rage that needs fine-tuning (mostly in suction power, as right now it's early-BHB syndrome). The mets are a little annoying, but I feel the hotheads and the Sniper Joes both have enough to warrant being as strong as they are.

[Linnie]

The thing I feel about his summons are that the equilibrium is unstable. The less players remain, the longer it takes to kill a summon, especially the Mettaurs with their invincibility frames along with their fuckton of HP. The longer it takes for the summons to be killed, the more summons the Hale can put on the map, pushing things more and more in the Hale's favor until he pretty much can't be beat by a single player unless he's nearly dead as-is.

[Dr. Freeman]

Putting any Hale into the Secret Boss pool would also mean you would essentially never seem them again.
I don't know about anyone else, but they rarely come up for me.

Nerf the suction a bit and he's good to go. The minions gimmick at least gives him a reason to exist as it's interesting and new. The same can't be said about all the hales.

I don't even know why secret hales exist outside of Akuma. There's nothing special about Gamma's feet or Pissed Off Roll...and NeoDS is just dumb.

[Gumballtoid]

Putting any Hale into the Secret Boss pool would also mean you would essentially never seem them again.
I don't know about anyone else, but they rarely come up for me.

Nerf the suction a bit and he's good to go. The minions gimmick at least gives him a reason to exist as it's interesting and new. The same can't be said about all the hales.

I don't even know why secret hales exist outside of Akuma. There's nothing special about Gamma's feet or Pissed Off Roll...and NeoDS is just dumb.

Everything about this post is accurate. Having a pool of bosses that never show up is a complete waste of the effort put into them. Unless it's NeoDS, then it's a waste of effort in any case.

I'd knock some health off of Unknown Robot Master's Mets myself. They already have invincibility states, and it just seems like overkill as is.

Also I sometimes have trouble picking the boss out of a crowd. It might help if they had a cute little boss tag.

[kefka666]

I haven't seen any Saxton Hale servers up in awhile. Several players on other servers are saying that Saxton Hale mode has been banned and is no longer being worked on. I was just wondering if that is true or not.

[Stardust]

It's true that even the very last hot-hot-sub-very-under-mini-second hotfix is still banned from Best Ever, as the Best Ever admins ban the mods which can cause crashes (crashes usually result in a CPU rape for the BestEver servers, which means lagging for all the servers, so yeah it's not minor stuff. The only way to stop this global lag is to kill the server when it crashes, but the admin of the server isn't always here to fix that).
I'd host it with my own network but 1) I can't port forward this is 2hard4me 2) My french network would grant every 'muricans players at least a good 150+ ping. William0918 hosted it once but it quickly faded, that's too bad

But I don't *really* know why the crash occur, like, I can't find the bug : the last server played about 50 stages before crashing to MM5CRY, and that's when the admins killed it.

I plan on asking them to unban it, with the condition of me staying active and keep an eye on the statut of the server very often (and/or shutdown the server when I'm not here). Besides I'd love to host the future bro mapping jamming thing super so that more players could hear of it and play it (there is going to be around twenty maps in this map pack tho) so it doesn't fade on the internet after one week.
Development rather slowed down deeply to a abysmal level
my partner Tails mostly left the SH project, and Braixen/Dakutatoru seemed less interested in Unholy last time I meet him, so I think we're kinda all burned out or lost interest in bosses mods. If you think about it SHR++ literally almost doubled the amount of bosses avaiable since Balrog's version, so it's not like there's a very small selection.

tl;dr : development mostly stopped yes. SHR++ is banned but I'll try to negociate with the admins to let me host it on occasion

[Emmanuelf06]

Just to know, it's a perrma ban for your mode?...

Too bad .....

[kefka666]

Well that is a shame. That was the one mode I really enjoyed. Guess its back to Team Fortress 2. Thank you for the prompt response.

[Linnie]

You know, kefka, ehhh is banned but ehh isn't, I think. You can always host an earlier version.