Justified Classes v4b Beta 14

[xColdxFusionx]

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.

[Shmeckie]

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.

You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.

Anyway, I can't believe it took me this long to notice all the pickup weapons are removed from each stage and the reason why...

Oh my god I love you guys.

This mod makes me feel like a kid again!

One thing; the copywep classes' charged shots need nerfing. They do so much damage there's little point in even switching weapons. Several players got by just by spamming charged buster shots.

[Emmanuelf06]

Yeah, speciallly with Megaman...I agree...

[Shmeckie]

Maybe replicate the damage they do to bosses, as opposed to how many hits it takes them to kill stage enemies...

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention this; Enker needs help. Badly. He takes too much damage when absorbing shots in his altfire stance. Many times, after using it, sure, you've got a full ammo bar to dish out a bunch of level 3 Mirror Busters, but you've also lost most of your health bar. This makes him utterly useless in LMS. Considering how long his stance lasts, he should have some significant armor during the stance, if not outright invincibility (though that might be going a little far). Also his Mirror Buster isn't powerful enough to warrant that level of damage.

I still think Saturn's release attack is far too weak for how much energy is needed to even get it. After using it on bots, humans, and having humans use it on me, I can safely say there is little to no threat in this attack. His mainfire ring toss is more dangerous than this move, especially combined with the slide. He might as well not even use it. I think the best option is to buff the damage his shots do during this attack, making using it an actual reward with tangible results. At this point I think this attack might actually do less damage than his ring.

[!o! woohoo]

Maybe replicate the damage they do to bosses, as opposed to how many hits it takes them to kill stage enemies...

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention this; Enker needs help. Badly. He takes too much damage when absorbing shots in his altfire stance. Many times, after using it, sure, you've got a full ammo bar to dish out a bunch of level 3 Mirror Busters, but you've also lost most of your health bar. This makes him utterly useless in LMS. Considering how long his stance lasts, he should have some significant armor during the stance, if not outright invincibility (though that might be going a little far). Also his Mirror Buster isn't powerful enough to warrant that level of damage.

Enker is already confirmed to be changed.

I still think Saturn's release attack is far too weak for how much energy is needed to even get it. After using it on bots, humans, and having humans use it on me, I can safely say there is little to no threat in this attack. His mainfire ring toss is more dangerous than this move, especially combined with the slide. He might as well not even use it. I think the best option is to buff the damage his shots do during this attack, making using it an actual reward with tangible results. At this point I think this attack might actually do less damage than his ring.

We may buff the damage or make it easier to use.

[Gumballtoid]

I feel like Mars' Photon Missile could use a little bit of a speed boost. It's just a smidge too slow to be very applicable when I could just pound away with his cherries. It's also unclear how exactly his mines regenerate. You drop them but you have to hit someone with it to get them back and they disappear really quickly??? I personally think they shouldn't disappear at all. It's difficult to lay traps when they don't last very long.

A single pea from Jupiter's mainfire does around 9 damage to an idle opponent. Naturally it's not very useful. It could do with a slight damage buff or a reduction on the spread.

Pharaohman's shots had a unique sprite in Megaman 4 that you should consider implementing.

[Fyone]

Dudes, I wasn't going to say anything until I could back up my previous opinion...

...but you need better sound effects. You can go ahead and use my sound effects from YDClasses if you want. Any of them, no regrets.

Thanks!

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.

You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.

Anyway, I can't believe it took me this long to notice all the pickup weapons are removed from each stage and the reason why...

Oh my god I love you guys.

This mod makes me feel like a kid again!

One thing; the copywep classes' charged shots need nerfing. They do so much damage there's little point in even switching weapons. Several players got by just by spamming charged buster shots.

We might implement resistances eventually but never outright healing. Also the charged shots already kill in three hits, four hits would be too low to even be a reliable weapon.

I feel like Mars' Photon Missile could use a little bit of a speed boost. It's just a smidge too slow to be very applicable when I could just pound away with his cherries. It's also unclear how exactly his mines regenerate. You drop them but you have to hit someone with it to get them back and they disappear really quickly??? I personally think they shouldn't disappear at all. It's difficult to lay traps when they don't last very long.

A single pea from Jupiter's mainfire does around 9 damage to an idle opponent. Naturally it's not very useful. It could do with a slight damage buff or a reduction on the spread.

Pharaohman's shots had a unique sprite in Megaman 4 that you should consider implementing.

I'll buff the speed of the Photon Missile a bit, the mines are gonna degenerate cleaner next version not gonna make them not degenerate at all though.

Jupiter's mainfire will get buffed very slightly; we're also changing how the altfire works next version so maybe think of the mainfire as a finisher.

I'm also probably gonna just translate the colours; adding a single sprite that is only slightly different doesn't seem worth it to me.

[MusashiAA]

Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?

Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.

You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.

Oh no no no no no, no no no no no no no. You gotta know better, you shouldn't do that because then you would pretty much have to test everything on everything (plus, some Robot Masters do get hurt by their own weapons in the canon, some just deflect it, and very few are healed by them)...and I wasn't going to say anything about testing and stuff, but you guys need some more creativity to test your things, man. How do you miss Centaur?

[Fyone]

What's the problem with Centaurman exactly?

[Shmeckie]

We might implement resistances eventually but never outright healing. Also the charged shots already kill in three hits, four hits would be too low to even be a reliable weapon.

Except the charged shots are large, travel at a good speed, AND do the damage they do on top of it. Especially Proto Man's charged shot. As it stands why would a Mega Man player ever use an acquired weapon when he can spam charged buster shots all day? Why bother with weaknesses when you've got a solid 3HKO from a large, fast moving projectile?

Oh no no no no no, no no no no no no no. You gotta know better, you shouldn't do that because then you would pretty much have to test everything on everything (plus, some Robot Masters do get hurt by their own weapons in the canon, some just deflect it, and very few are healed by them)...and I wasn't going to say anything about testing and stuff, but you guys need some more creativity to test your things, man. How do you miss Centaur?

I'm not sure I follow why this would require such extensive testing. It's single instances of one class being effected by one specific weapon. Mega Man/Proto Man/Bass' Bubble Lead healing Bubble Man, or the copywep classes' Thunder Bolt supercharging Spring Man for a limited time, during which his Spring Punch would pull people towards it. Something like that.

And yeah, the ones that get hurt by their own weapon should be the same way. Maybe not the full 1HKO route with Metal Man, but at least the increase in damage a weakness would do.

What's the problem with Centaurman exactly?

I think he's referring to how exploitable the teleport is.

[Fyone]

We might implement resistances eventually but never outright healing. Also the charged shots already kill in three hits, four hits would be too low to even be a reliable weapon.

Except the charged shots are large, travel at a good speed, AND do the damage they do on top of it. Especially Proto Man's charged shot. As it stands why would a Mega Man player ever use an acquired weapon when he can spam charged buster shots all day? Why bother with weaknesses when you've got a solid 3HKO from a large, fast moving projectile?

I'm definitely not making it 4hko I'm afraid but I will keep looking into this just to make sure.

Oh no no no no no, no no no no no no no. You gotta know better, you shouldn't do that because then you would pretty much have to test everything on everything (plus, some Robot Masters do get hurt by their own weapons in the canon, some just deflect it, and very few are healed by them)...and I wasn't going to say anything about testing and stuff, but you guys need some more creativity to test your things, man. How do you miss Centaur?

I'm not sure I follow why this would require such extensive testing. It's single instances of one class being effected by one specific weapon. Mega Man/Proto Man/Bass' Bubble Lead healing Bubble Man, or the copywep classes' Thunder Bolt supercharging Spring Man for a limited time, during which his Spring Punch would pull people towards it. Something like that.

And yeah, the ones that get hurt by their own weapon should be the same way. Maybe not the full 1HKO route with Metal Man, but at least the increase in damage a weakness would do.

I don't think we're going to do this.

What's the problem with Centaurman exactly?

I think he's referring to how exploitable the teleport is.

I've already stated that this is nerfed.

[MusashiAA]

Centaurman can get stuck inside players when coming out of the "teleport". Centaurman isn't even the only one capable of doing this: Drillman can do that too, and it would be a pretty good guess that every single RM that can teleport be able to. I suggest going YD Drillman's way to solve this.

[Fyone]

I've already been aware of this, I just didn't know how to fix it; I will look into the way YD classes has fixed it.

[Stardust]

Or if you prefer to do it the hard way, the MMV weapons pack had a similar situation with Break Dash ; since you turn non-solid, becoming solid back at the exact moment where you would end your dash into another player could make you stuck.
To solve this, they... allowed the dasher to OHKO his opponent if he gets stuck in him. Gettin' rid of the annoying things. ("due to physical laws, %k killed %o")

[Shmeckie]

I think it's best if they use YD Classes' method...