MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!

[Bikdark]

Treble Boost is extremely powerful

Not if you know how to aim upwards. It gives the other player an advantage, yes, but it's not really omfg2power5me. Just get a strong projectile weapon and be persistent.

"Strong projectile weapons" tend to be slow and have a bad RoF. You'll only get in 2 shots maximum before someone with Treble Boost will be WAY out of your effective range.
Remember, projectile-centric game. Hitscan would completely nullify any sort of issue Treble Boost imposes.

[Tfp BreakDown]

Personally treble boost IMO is pretty pointless upgrade. True if can give you flight and let you reach areas for better weapons/items but same thing could be achieved with rush jet, rush coil, and tornado hold, to name a few. Plus the usefulness in combat is pretty low. It gives you spread fire but at a slow pace making it kind of worthless. I know it's mainly for mobility instead of combat but it feels like a waste of an inventory slot.

[Magikarp]

Strong projectile weapons" tend to be slow and have a bad RoF. You'll only get in 2 shots maximum before someone with Treble Boost will be WAY out of your effective range.

Ring Boomerang says hi. tho im pretty sure that would constitute as a boomerang wouldnt it
Needle Cannon does too.

If all else fails, just chase 'em. They can't stay in the air forever, and if the player chasing is as good as you expect them to be, they'll live long enough and have enough HP to deal with the other player using the Treble Boost. Besides, the Mega Buster isn't completely useless. If all else fails, just use that.

If you really think that fighting against someone with Treble Boost is completely futile then you either have a vendetta against the pea shooter or not realize that not all weapons are completely useless against flying enemies.

[Shadow Blade]

I'd have to agree with you there, its pretty useless compared to other mobility items.

[Rozark]

The way I see it Gravity Hold will be sought out more, along with Tengu hold having an aerial trap denial.. thing.
Words.

[Bikdark]

I'd have to agree with you there, its pretty useless compared to other mobility items.

Mind providing examples and evidence? I'd love to hear your take on this.

[Orange juice :l]

If you can realistically, in practice, unstaged, take down a Gyroman in flight using the buster, in a deathmatch scenario, on an average map, then you have a point. I have not seen such a phenomenon in my four years of playing, but if you can provide evidence to the contrary I'd be astounded to see it.

I'd have to agree with you there, its pretty useless compared to other mobility items.

[xColdxFusionx]

Stop assuming that the person using Treble Boost is bad at the game. You use Treble Boost to leave a fight that's disadvantageous. If you can't lose a fight, you can't lose the game.
I'm not assuming the person using Treble Boost is bad at the game. I'm assuming that you're using Treble Boost to leave fights that you're losing. Which means that you'd have to be losing fights in order for Treble Boost to be useful. Let's see where this gets you, assuming you successfully disengage:

(T)DM - Disengaging means you aren't killing people, which means you're not getting frags, which means you're falling behind. It's much faster to just take the death with honor and respawn.
Duel - The best mode for disengaging, because it actually matters somewhat. However, you net your opponent the same amount of time to recharge, meaning you're essentially back where you started.
(T)LMS - If you disengage in this mode, you can't heal, meaning you're still in pretty bad shape. Sure, it lets you keep playing and have a chance at a kill, but if you're relying on the disengage to save you, it's still a crapshoot.
Terminator - See DM. The terminator might actually like disengage to save his ass so he doesn't give someone 10 points, but even then it's not spectacular since you can't exactly heal as a Terminator iirc.
Possession - The only time it would be useful is while you're holding the Board. Which, if you do, means you've bugged the game and might get votekicked for being a douchebag.
(OF)CTF - If you got a Treble Boost on a CTF map, you should probably ask yourself a few questions about the quality of the map you're on as opposed to the weapon.
Screw Scramble - Disengage is actually kind of really good in this mode for delivery. Then again, who even plays this mode?

Overall verdict: Disengage isn't spectacularly useful in most modes, essentially offering you one more shot at getting the battle right, or (in some cases) simply prolonging the fight longer than it needs to be. It doesn't directly improve your chances of winning substantially in most gamemodes.

SUCH STRAWMAN WOW
You don't understand that static vertical position != changing vertical position. Hitting someone on a ledge above you is easy, because they're keeping a constant vertical position that is easily predictable. What you're not getting is that if someone can EASILY change their vertical position at will, they will be 5 times as hard to hit compared to someone on a ledge above you, or below you.
Again, I never said that the two were equivalent. Sure, hitting a target who's moving in three dimensions is harder. I'm just saying it's not impossible, and a competent (or lucky) player would be able to shoot someone out of the air.

No response to this. Further increasing either player's skill will not lead to anything.
No response to this. Just saying "you're wrong" doesn't automatically make me wrong.

No, knight doesn't have proto buster.
Okay, my mistake. I have trouble remembering what's on certain maps sometimes.

On Windman, a player can traverse the outsides of the rooms as well with flight, you know.
The invisible ceiling on the outdoor maps are still fairly low, though that is a fair point. The map does, however, have Ballade Cracker, which (while it isn't a perfect solution) has a fast projectile speed and good damage, two things that Treble Boost doesn't exactly like.

Dynamo isn't as cramped as you think. The moving floor sections are great spots to abuse Treble Boost.
Keep in mind that you have to make a tricky jump from the conveyor belt to the platform Treble Boost is on without getting shot, and even then in order to get back you have to expend most of its ammo bar, and then you have to refill it manually because I don't believe there's a Balancer or a W-Tank on the map (again, correct me if I'm wrong.) That seems like a lot of effort for the ability to run away from a fight.

Uh, what? Doing WHAT wrong? If you have powerful disengage then you have an immediate handle on the game's flow.
"If you rely entirely on aim you're doing it wrong."
"If you rely entirely on map control you're doing it wrong."
"If you rely on anything you're doing it wrong."
We call these "playstyles"
I phrased that wrong, and I apologize.
There are ways to counter Treble Boost's disengage, and its effectiveness as a primary strategy is nowhere near ideal. If you believe it's going to save you 100% of the time and rely on that fact as part of your strategy, you are doing it wrong.

"Strong projectile weapons" tend to be slow and have a slow RoF. You'll only get in 2 shots maximum before someone with Treble Boost will be WAY out of your effective range.

Proto Buster says hi. (Fastest projectile speed in the game, bro)
Ballade Cracker says hi (good projectile speed + splash, if you play your cards right).
Metal Blade says hi (Don't underestimate rippers).
Magnet Missile says hi to an extent, if you know how to use it. (Also Dive Missile, if you know your opponent's weak.)
Hell, even Silver Tomahawk says hi to some degree with proper use. (Seriously, keeping tabs on that thing in the heat of battle can be a nightmare sometimes.)

[Magikarp]

If you can realistically, in practice, unstaged, take down a Gyroman in flight using the buster, in a deathmatch scenario, on an average map, then you have a point. I have not seen such a phenomenon in my four years of playing, but if you can provide evidence to the contrary I'd be astounded to see it.

(click to show/hide)

You need to eat more of this

[Shadow Blade]

Mind providing examples and evidence? I'd love to hear your take on this.

Lets see, you can easily climb hights with rush coil and Item 1 and Tornado Hold, Item 2 and Rush jet are much better aerial tools because  well for one you aren't stuck with a pathetic tri shot that can hardly hit anything if you tried.

[Orange juice :l]

You are aware that two flying targets are essentially the same, correct? They have the same flying mechanics and comparable flight times. That's like saying Rockman's megabuster doesn't apply because it's not vanilla Megaman's. People are disassociating what already exists in practice from the new and shiny.

[Shadow Blade]

That's like saying Rockman's megabuster doesn't apply because it's not vanilla Megaman's.

I'm sorry what? I'm not even going to bother repeating what I said last post.

[Magikarp]

Seeing as I'm not the master of damage tables and armor I'm sticking to vanilla 8BDM because I actually know what I'm dealing with in that vein.

I never said that it would be easy to shoot someone down with the buster while they're flying, if anything it'll be the opposite. However, again I bring up the fact that they can't stay in the air forever. They have to land some time, and that's when you can get them with weapons that would be hard to or impossible to hit with otherwise. Because, let's be honest, you're not going to be using Hyper Bomb to take down a guy using Treble Boost.

[DrMario2]

So I found out how to open the ZIP file with 7z, but it keeps on saying "Unsupported File Compression" when trying to be extracted. -.-

[Orange juice :l]

I'm not discussing damage tables, I'm referring to whether it's plausible to connect with a flying target at all.

I think we're falling into the same pit of "practice vs principle" again. Sure, anybody can claim "oh, shoot them when they land", but it's hugely different to actually do so in-game. They're not going to fly in a straight line in a convenient area, they're going to land directly on supplies, most likely going over a wall on their way. MM8BDM has plenty of platforming, and there are a great deal of maps that either allow for considerably quicker access to HP/Ammo troves while flying, or outright escape routes that allow for an easy getaway.

I'm sorry what? I'm not even going to bother repeating what I said last post.

I'm trying my damndest to figure out what you're implying here, but I honestly can't. You tried your hardest to be rhetorical though, so keep trying.