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Author Topic: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!  (Read 122363 times)

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September 29, 2014, 04:11:25 PM
Reply #645

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #645 on: September 29, 2014, 04:11:25 PM »
I wonder if ZDN1.3 will work with OGL on my end... I need to test stuff, but it can only be done on OGL.

September 29, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Reply #646

Offline Lego

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #646 on: September 29, 2014, 04:30:05 PM »
What specifically do you need to test that requires Open GL? The only things I can think of that require it are models, dynamic lights, and fog.

September 29, 2014, 04:31:01 PM
Reply #647

Offline Laggy Blazko

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #647 on: September 29, 2014, 04:31:01 PM »
And 3d floors with slopes.
EDIT: wait, what kind of fog requies OpenGL?
EDIT2: Oh, MAPINFO fog does.

September 29, 2014, 04:38:35 PM
Reply #648

Offline Lego

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #648 on: September 29, 2014, 04:38:35 PM »
Sector_SetFade doesn't work in software...and 3D Floors have always worked in Zandronum's software renderer.

edit: Whoops misread what you said sorry

September 29, 2014, 06:57:18 PM
Reply #649

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #649 on: September 29, 2014, 06:57:18 PM »
Quote from: "Lego"
What specifically do you need to test that requires Open GL? The only things I can think of that require it are models, dynamic lights, and fog.

Just some effects and gimmicks.

September 30, 2014, 04:45:52 PM
Reply #650

Offline BiscuitSlash

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #650 on: September 30, 2014, 04:45:52 PM »
Honestly I can't say I'm too happy about the Eddie thing. Yeah, it would help you out slightly, but one of the main things that Eddie is known for is giving you an item that you won't value, and getting a weapon you already have in 8BDM make Eddie seem more like his usual self. Heck, the reason he can give you worthless items in the first place is because he doesn't even know what item he's going to give and is therefore unable to choose.

I get that it's supposed to improve the gameplay slightly (with slightly being a keyword here), but I would rather sacrifice making the gameplay very slightly better for extra accuracy and staying true to the source material. This is why I was never happy with no longer being able to collect health and ammo pickups if already at full health/ammo. The biggest thing it effects is the faithfulness to the source, not the gameplay.

September 30, 2014, 07:05:05 PM
Reply #651

Offline Messatsu

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #651 on: September 30, 2014, 07:05:05 PM »
Actually, few things about that.  Generally for 8bdm, gameplay > accuracy.  If it helps the overall game, then typically gameplay wins out.  This is in part why you have shields that aren't all the same thing.  Also, the not pickup up ammo thing IS actually accurate for MM&B iirc.

September 30, 2014, 07:15:36 PM
Reply #652

Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #652 on: September 30, 2014, 07:15:36 PM »
Agreed. Really, the only scenarios in which I would choose accuracy are in the case of aesthetics, where they don't really impact how the game plays, such as the infamous Crash Bomber vs. Crash Bomb debate. It'd be really tacky to go and eat up all the ammo in team games when you don't need it.

September 30, 2014, 11:38:58 PM
Reply #653

Offline BiscuitSlash

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #653 on: September 30, 2014, 11:38:58 PM »
What I'm saying is, the games faithfulness outweighs the improvement of gameplay in the case of Eddie and health/ammo pickups.

Normally I would agree with improving the gameplay, but Eddie giving me something I already have and picking up health/ammo refills when not needed (which could be used for strategy) seems incredibly minor and not worth changing.

September 30, 2014, 11:56:48 PM
Reply #654

Offline Laggy Blazko

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #654 on: September 30, 2014, 11:56:48 PM »
Yep. The "luck" factor is essential in eddie. And having some "luck" in the gameplay may be part of its fun.
I don't agree with picking up health/ammo refills when not needed, though, because of the potential griefing in team games

October 01, 2014, 12:00:23 AM
Reply #655

Offline MusashiAA

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #655 on: October 01, 2014, 12:00:23 AM »
Gameplay > accuracy

No discussion there. Some things can be both accurate and playable or balanced, or a non-detriment to the gameplay...but just some things, and they're generally not gameplay-related, because 2D NES platformer design cannot fit in directly in this game without being flawed or reworked. Eddie's already random (which is accurate enough) and with too many choices, and that's generally not good design. Making random things less cumbersome is good, keeping them cumbersome is bad.

EDIT: In better words, randomness in games is not really that bad, it's just not wanted, it's something you may want to avoid when it's not necessary. Eddie's random because that's accurate, but the randomness shouldn't be an obstacle in a fast-paced game, so limiting the randomness is a good approach at this.

October 01, 2014, 12:40:32 PM
Reply #656

Offline BiscuitSlash

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #656 on: October 01, 2014, 12:40:32 PM »
Quote from: "BiscuitSlash"
What I'm saying is, the games faithfulness outweighs the improvement of gameplay
I don't remember ever being frustrated at Eddie giving me something I already have in 8BDM. This "improvement" seems far to minor to warrant dropping the accuracy to the original games.

October 01, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Reply #657

Offline Ivory

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #657 on: October 01, 2014, 02:09:43 PM »
The world doesn't revolve around you though, there are people who despise getting a weapon they already have and I do agree from a gameplay standpoint, getting something you don't already have will always feel like eddie never wasted your time.

October 01, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
Reply #658

Offline ScrapHeap

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #658 on: October 01, 2014, 02:23:02 PM »
Unless he gives you Copy Vision.

October 01, 2014, 02:52:23 PM
Reply #659

Offline Lego

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Re: MM8BDM V4A - V4B Roll Call!
« Reply #659 on: October 01, 2014, 02:52:23 PM »
Irrelevant. The point of the conversation was talking about how Eddie's v4b changes will remove Eddie's ability to give you a weapon you already have. Your statement makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Not to mention it doesn't even pose a claim...you aren't saying him dropping copy vision is positive or negative and your statement isn't even a complete thought.

Please make sure you have a full thought before posting, otherwise it just clutters things up.
Thank you.