Class Based Modification vs. Justified Classes

[Orange juice :l]

You know, I love it when people post in these kinds of threads because maybe, someday, people will realize that there's more tension and saltiness in Cutstuff than just a handful of people the biggest buddy circle at the time decides they don't like.

Stop saying that CBM sucks because "all you have to do" is pick a certain class to win. ... Every game that has such an overload of characters is going to have a couple of Akumas and Dan Hibikis in it. There's simply no possible way to balance something of this scope perfectly without making everything completely boring.

Not taking sides here, because both are egregiously guilty, but this is absolutely a non-valid argument. If you want to release a game with 80 characters, you need to put forth the effort to ensure that there are no "bad apples." But wait, this effort grows exponentially, so the only plausible solution is to homogenize the classes, some may say, but perhaps you simply shouldn't make that many classes. Nintendo's modern flagship, Smash Brothers, doesn't have half of what CBM does in terms of roster (I'm assuming here without checking, so as a safety net, the same goes for Justified   ), so it's a bit ambitious to claim you can do the same. For free. In a different game's engine. As a mod of another mod.

Right, rambling, sorry.

Anyways, an overpowered class is much, MUCH more offputting than an underpowered class. Let's look at Punk and Cutman. Cutman used to be good, now he's not. Who suffers? Cutman mains (and in this mod, where you switch classes all the time and have a learning curve that ends about 25 minutes in, you can get around stuff like that). Punk, well, he was always good, so who suffers? Everyone who isn't a Punk main. Especially Cutman mains.

#wewantourmeleeback2014

Also

>justified isn't fun and my friends think the same
>show some evidence or your post carries no weight
>fun is now to be debated
>mfw

[Clayton]

If you like Class Based Modification better than Justified Classes with no reasoning but "I just think it feels better" or "JC is extremely bland" than I have absolutely nothing to follow up with since there is no changing such ignorant mindsets.

As I said, generally this topic are people's opinions on what class they like better. Except the end of this calling it "ignorant mindsets" clearly states that people who prefer CBM to Justified are ignorant and wrong, which is outright ridiculous. You are saying that this topic is Musashi's goal to make himself feel better about CBM when it's incredibly open, but Clayton here is jumping in saying that if you think CBM is better that you have an "ignorant mindset" and thus are wrong and there's nothing else to say.

Which is absolutely ridiculous and not the way anyone should act.

You are again like before reading my post completely wrong, I never said that thinking Class Based Modification is better than Justified Classes is ignorant and wrong. What I said was that giving no explanation or evidence behind such a claim is ignorant and wrong.

If you like Class Based Modification more than Justified Classes that is completely fine and your opinion.

[Bikdark]

You are again like before reading my post completely wrong, I never said that thinking Class Based Modification is better than Justified Classes is ignorant and wrong. What I said was that giving no explanation or evidence behind such a claim is ignorant and wrong.

If you like Class Based Modification more than Justified Classes that is completely fine and your opinion.

dude you make no sense.

[Dr. Freeman]

If you like Class Based Modification better than Justified Classes with no reasoning but "I just think it feels better" or "JC is extremely bland" than I have absolutely nothing to follow up with since there is no changing such ignorant mindsets.

As I said, generally this topic are people's opinions on what class they like better. Except the end of this calling it "ignorant mindsets" clearly states that people who prefer CBM to Justified are ignorant and wrong, which is outright ridiculous. You are saying that this topic is Musashi's goal to make himself feel better about CBM when it's incredibly open, but Clayton here is jumping in saying that if you think CBM is better that you have an "ignorant mindset" and thus are wrong and there's nothing else to say.

Which is absolutely ridiculous and not the way anyone should act.

You are again like before reading my post completely wrong, I never said that thinking Class Based Modification is better than Justified Classes is ignorant and wrong. What I said was that giving no explanation or evidence behind such a claim is ignorant and wrong.

My claim is I have more fun with CBM. There's no evidence to back this up. Like I don't know what you want. I have more fun with one than the other, because I find CBM more exciting. I prefer its style of classes more. Personal. Preference.
OJ's previous statement is completely right in the fact that you can't debate fun.
And yet, you keep on going up demanding evidence to WHY people have more fun, when there's nothing to discuss.
So I think we're good here.

[Shmeckie]

Lot's of words that I don't need to show that I'm quoting you.

I really don't know if we're reading the same topic here. Musashi is indeed part of the CBM dev team to my knowledge, but in no way is this a personal attack. In fact, in his opening posts he said what CBM did right, what JC did right, and what both did wrong as well. That seemed pretty anti bias. In fact, generally this whole topic is running smoothly with people saying which they prefer (which is the point of the topic) and except for Clayton butting in every time someone has a negative opinion on Justified, (and Rozark's brief yet unnecessary stuff against Dan) the opinions have been well formed, and people seem to be taking them with some semblance of respect.

The fact you you honestly believe this is a "pissing contest" is outstanding. Musashi's first post didn't consist of him saying, "CBM IS REALLY GOOD AND JUSTIFIED SUCKS" instead he talked about pros and cons with both class mods and asked what people think. When Dan came in saying he preferred Justified, and everyone took it fine. (except previously mentioned Rozark)

Bik is accurate that these are indeed two different classes mods, but no one is attacking JC and no one is attacking CBM. So at the same time I see no reason to call the cops and close this topic on grounds of Musashi making this to spite you. Because that's not what's happening at all.

What makes this a pissing contest is the whole point of the thread was to start another pointless, toxic pissing contest over which class mod is better, and for Musashi to go on an extended shpiel about everything he thinks is wrong with Justified. If he doesn't like the approach, fine, but this was all kinds of the wrong way to go about it. What was this supposed to accomplish? What was the endgame of this thread?

If you think Justified's slipping somewhere, that's what the Justified thread is for. What does page after page of "I prefer ____" supposed to achieve? Why is there even a "vs." going on, here? What was the point of this extended original post, and thread, of Musashi saying "this is why what I think you're doing is wrong." Where we supposed to change our whole approach? Was that the goal of this thread?  'Cause our approach seems to be working out pretty well for us. So if the goal isn't to make us make classes more like CBM's, then what was the point? For us to explain our approach? Because we've done that a bajillion times in the Justified thread. So I ask, again; what was the point?

Also I think what Clay is saying is the ignorance he refers to is when people make a more specific comments against Justified they don't back up (i.e. "the classes feel the same").

[Knux]

Musashi, this was foolish, this was childish, and I'm damn disappointed that this thread got this big.

There's a lot of drama-loving younger players around these parts that just cannot live with the notion that people play this game the way they don't like to play it. And boy howdy do the folks at Cutstuff love to bicker. So of course people flock to this thread to do just that! Because rather than just not play the mod you don't like, and focus on the ones you do, let's throw a hissy fit!

So you're taking the whole debate with people's elaborate responses, labeling it bickering and calling out the whole community on it? Hypocrisy at its finest. You shouldn't cry wolf when you're the first one to bite.

pointless, toxic pissing contest

You're the only one being toxic here. There were no shots fired until this shit right here.

[Orange juice :l]

So we've determined that fun is indiscussible.
We've made 66 posts of discussion on Class mods in this thread over the last 28 hours.
Ergo, Class mods have been traveling at a velocity of 2.36 unfuns/hour over said time.

If somebody were to get me a definite function of posts versus time, I could get us some more important information such as whether we're becoming more or less unfun at any point in time, ergo determining whose posts contribute the least to this discussion.

[Shmeckie]

Musashi, this was foolish, this was childish, and I'm damn disappointed that this thread got this big.

There's a lot of drama-loving younger players around these parts that just cannot live with the notion that people play this game the way they don't like to play it. And boy howdy do the folks at Cutstuff love to bicker. So of course people flock to this thread to do just that! Because rather than just not play the mod you don't like, and focus on the ones you do, let's throw a hissy fit!

So you're taking the whole debate with people's elaborate responses, labeling it bickering and calling out the whole community on it? Hypocrisy at its finest. You shouldn't cry wolf when you're the first one to bite.

Foregoing the fact the one-liner at the end there doesn't really make sense, how do responses being elaborate give them some kind of instant merit?

pointless, toxic pissing contest

You're the only one being toxic here. There were no shots fired until this shit right here.

How is that even toxic? I'm kinda befuddled, here. "Toxic" doesn't mean "not being nice," it means this only hurts things, sets us back, gets us nowhere, etc. How is one long thread that's no better than kids on GameFAQs arguing which console is better helpful or productive in any way?

[Mendez]

GOTTA GET MY POST IN BEFORE MODS LOCK THIS TOPIC.
MENDEZ WAS HERE, OJ IS A LOSER

[Korby]

How is one long thread that's no better than kids on GameFAQs arguing which console is better helpful or productive in any way?

Because through it, players can express their actual feelings about the mods, and developers can look at the feelings from an objective standpoint and see if any action is required.
Judging by earlier comments, the Justified developers don't seem to value the opinions stated in this thread very highly.

[Orange juice :l]

Last post for Mendez being at most 96% as cool as I am

[Lighjing]

You know, for my money, I think the best class mod isn't even a class mod, it's really a skin. I put my money on Rave Balloon

[Kapus]

How is one long thread that's no better than kids on GameFAQs arguing which console is better helpful or productive in any way?

Because through it, players can express their actual feelings about the mods, and developers can look at the feelings from an objective standpoint and see if any action is required.
Judging by earlier comments, the Justified developers don't seem to value the opinions stated in this thread very highly.

Criticisms towards the different mods can go into their respective topics though, right? Like Bik said, they are different mods made for different people, and there's not really much reason to compare them. I don't really play either, but from my understanding, some people enjoy the balanced and level feeling of Justified Classes while some people like the diversity and whackiness of YD classes. And that's...fine? If people have specific issues with the different mods, they can discuss them in the respective topics. Clearly, the main thing really happening in this topic is fighting over needless comparisons.

If I were a mod, I'd lock this topic.

[Ivory]

I'm just going to leave this here and do everyone a favor and defuse this ticking time bomb of a thread.