Unholy Classes/Bosses (V7A-Beta3)

[RifleGod]

Another question:

What happens if Sampi is defeated? A special event? Special boss?

[Superjustinbros]

@Rifle:
Yes, V7 will be adding new classes, and the return of Glory Guster.
Also, nothing happens at the moment if Sampi is defeated.

[Chaosman.EXE]

Aside from walking away having survived one of the toughest challenges I've ever faced in any game. Sampi and Zankokuna Hellbot both are darned near impossible >_<

[RifleGod]

Im was playing on the Unholy Bosses server and I noticed that some classes need a nerf and others a buff, so... here is a list:

Classes that need a buff:

Handy Man- Buff is Alt. Just that. I tested him and he looked OP but then I tested him again and he needs a buff.

NegaMan- He is good for dodging but he does kinda low damage (even the charge shots dont do that damage). You should buff his damage but JUST A LITTLE.

Classes that need a nerf:

Astronaut- That stupid mainfire makes Touhou look like a Bullet Heaven. Impossible to dodge, good damage and wastes next to no ammo from Astronaut ammo bar.

[Zomo.exe]

Just a bit of some clarification for those wondering... Celebi stated his reasons for all the delays, meanwhile people like me and Pik just simply don't have as much time as we used to. Life, work, college/university stuff, work on other 8bdm mods, etc. but rest assured things are coming along fairly nicely. I'd love to talk about changes being made but not only would that ruin the surprises, there's WAY too many of those to bring up in one sitting. I myself did contribute a small bit to v7, namely the return of 2 old friends of mine, a couple of bosses some of those Battle Network enthusiasts may recognize, and MAYBE something else... very mysterious.

I don't think a WIP update is likely but it has been brought up before so there could be that... otherwise keep those pants on.

[Demitel]

Unholy is pretty much the most enjoyable game mode next to saxton hale, but maby Trickster needs a little buff?

Well, he is supposed to be a class gannon, but sometimes I find him a little bit underwhelming or too weak.

[Chaosman.EXE]

Unholy is pretty much the most enjoyable game mode next to saxton hale, but maby Trickster needs a little buff?

Well, he is supposed to be a class gannon, but sometimes I find him a little bit underwhelming or too weak.

I find it mostly has to do with the stage even though how you use his alt also factors into it a bit too; in some of them he's a force to be reckoned with (although the random scatter of his bombs can be a little difficult to control without some really precise aiming). And I should know; I went tow-to-tow with Sue and Soviet Frostbite on servers using him and was the last one left for both; I managed to top Sue and almost had Frosty-socks until he decided to sic a bunch of Wasps someone dropped on by butt.
Not to mention Trickster's bot AI when practicing offline is one of the few I can actually say is pretty good

[EvilTux]

I dunno if some of bosses will be getting taunts with the update, but I was thinking someone could use a few taunts from this website. Some of the unused audio files from Atomic Bomberman.

https://tcrf.net/Atomic_Bomberman/Unuse ... ips/Filthy

For example, I dunno if you would change handyman's taunt, but I somewhat see this as fitting for him: https://tcrf.net/images/3/32/AtomicFaceOuttake.ogg

[RifleGod]

Handy Man needs that taunt.

[Superjustinbros]

He does have a taunt. "Talk to the hand".

[EvilTux]

So I have to ask, because it doesn't seem right, altho i bet it is possible with a very slim chance.

I swear I break the rng on my server somehow. So a match occurred and we got Thomas. Not too big of a surprise. What really threw me off, is the boss that spawned after, which was Meguh Mang. Now if I understand correctly, Thomas replaces Meguh Mang after he spawned so many times (what is it, the third or fourth time it would replace him?). So in a certain logical way, Meguh Mang spawned twice in a row.

I guess what I'm wondering, is that something that can happen that isn't intended? I mean maybe the whole EX thing throws it off, but still.

[Chaosman.EXE]

So I have to ask, because it doesn't seem right, altho i bet it is possible with a very slim chance.

I swear I break the rng on my server somehow. So a match occurred and we got Thomas. Not too big of a surprise. What really threw me off, is the boss that spawned after, which was Meguh Mang. Now if I understand correctly, Thomas replaces Meguh Mang after he spawned so many times (what is it, the third or fourth time it would replace him?). So in a certain logical way, Meguh Mang spawned twice in a row.

I guess what I'm wondering, is that something that can happen that isn't intended? I mean maybe the whole EX thing throws it off, but still.

I think it's still possible (albeit unlikely). Either that or the server owner was using commands in the background; there are such commands that can be found in the readme.
But even without those, I once wound up in a server where the Iron Curtain turned up a crap-ton of times (none of them in a row, but still). And most of the time I was the one playing as him.

[Chaosman.EXE]

Minor question... Will Rogue DX or something like it ever be brought back in any update? Honestly I prefer him to Sampi, both playing against and as him. Sure, he's still really tough but he feels at least somewhat fair to me since someone who plays their class smart can reasonably oppose him. His attacks were powerful and difficult to dodge, but several of them either slowed his movement or outright stopped it and his shield can only take a little punishment before he starts getting torn up for a bit so I have to pick my fights carefully.
Playing as Sampi I don't even have to try; several of his attacks need some serious nerfs either because they're effortless one-move kills or because they completely outshine one of his other ones. But easily the worst part is his mainfire rage which is a massive example of both; free flying, invincibility, and devastating and impossible to dodge lightning bolts all over the place?? That's a level of overkill that puts even Shin Hellbot to shame, to the point where his alt-fire rage is pretty much useless by comparison. I'm well aware that he's the big final superboss now, but there should at least be a point to attempting to fight it!
Also... Having automatic max health of 30,000 on Sampi and Zankokuna Hellbot makes them an even more massive pain to deal with in smaller groups (though Unholy Water or an insta-death item on ??? is pretty much your only ticket to the latter in that case so Zanko at least has some excuse).

[Zomo.exe]

A little bit of information to help explain some points:

I created that boss back before Celebi started managing, and believe it or not it was actually my first work in either decorate or ACS. I had some knowledge of both before starting but not to the point where I could pull off tricks of major note. That was a year or so ago... and now, I think Rogue deserved a fresh coat of paint. Before he had clunky attacks and RNG picked them, but now you have complete control. That is fine and all but I know it may lead to attack preference; as I see what people want out of him or what is good/bad, then the guy will hopefully be tweaked to reflect opinions. Pik honestly thinks the old one is better but I don't, it shows my novice-level coding and just does NOT work.

I can't say much else but I'll leave it to the public to decide how it ultimately turns out; although if you play around with certain attacks I can guarantee you might find there is more to some of them that what they appear to do. Oh, and the shield is meant to block one attack every 5 seconds, and by any attack I mean ANY attack... including those annoying rubberbands and meteors that may never appear because of how scripting works.

[Chaosman.EXE]

I... can see your points in some of that. Though the shield is something I didn't really see as much of a problem; if the other players make a smart attack in tandem or he makes a careless mistake 5 seconds is still plenty of time to get torn a new one in a shooter game (though some people might consider it annoying if they can't catch up to one who does a hit-and-run; maybe extending the shield's wind-up would help?). I made a massive slip-up once and lost about a quarter of my health in a few seconds as a result. Heck, some classes like Megaman and Quickster are capable of outright killing him single-handedly.

If there's one complaint I had about Rogue, it's that for having such an extreme firing rate a lot of his attacks did buttloads of damage; if he caught you dead-on at close range you were pretty much screwed. The attacks' random nature didn't bother me all that much; I honestly feel like he did them better than the Hellbot bosses for various reasons and at least he had to stop moving when attacking. Yeah, there is some room for improvement but at least fighting against him doesn't feel like a total curbstomp where the survivors are the curb.

My main gripe with Sampi is even for a mod that was originally made to poke fun at the around half-dozen or so Saxton Hale mods, he's not really balanced at all. He doesn't even strike me as unbalanced; he's more anti-balanced. Just for good measure, let me run down his stuff.

 His default mainfire and altfire aren't too bad; they're potent, sure, but they force you to play smart to get the maximum effect out of them since the mainfire has a pretty slow rate and the dash uses an ammo bar, as well as that I've noticed they tend to do more from longer distances.

 Fire Wave Item: Effectively an RNG killer which, I should point out, spreads to Sampi's entire field of vision. If you're a survivor and the RNG god isn't on your side this will kill you before you even know where he is.

 Jumping Shockwave Item: Dixieandoff's altfire and the Generic Boss's superjump rolled into one, with the added effect of a midair shot that doesn't appear to have much of a point. This is admittedly a pretty good move for pulling surprise attacks, but considering the degree of control you have over where it can go the amount of damage it does is ludicrous.

 Fireball Item: I'm not even sure what this one does. Its effects aren't apparent to me in the slightest and it's largely pretty useless.

 Pellet Spread Item: Damaging, but not very accurate even at medium ranges. Completely outdone by one of his other attacks. Heck, his default mainfire is a more efficient way of dealing with targets.

 Stun Wave Item: Interesting concept, but not all that useful and I should mention it's probably bugged. If this close-range wave scores enough hits on someone it'll explode and send them straight into the air. If it only hits a few times for whatever reason they're stuck. They can't move until something else hits them and forces them out of the stunned state.

 Large Spheres Item: Larger, lasts longer, and more accurate than the pellet spread at medium ranges, and more efficient in handling enemies both in front and around at closer ranges as it can easily kill more than just what is in front of him. Renders the pellet spread rather redundant in my opinion.

 Crosshairs Item: You're pretty much dead if Sampi manages to nail you with this or set it off too close to you. Even if the resulting downpour of shots that follows this doesn't kill you he can easily follow up with one of his default attacks while you're sitting there during the windup, and that's not even counting that the crosshair does damage on its own without that.
Seriously, throwing a simple main or altfire right as the downpour starts to hit them never fails.

 Mainfire Rage: No warning as to when it's built up, and I already summed up my thoughts on the rest. This rage alone paired with his outrageously high health pretty much ensures that if his player knows anything about flight at all it will sign your death warrant, guaranteed.

 Altfire Rage: Unnecessarily long windup where nothing happens, and a brutal combination of the shockwave and a rain of meteors covering a single line of sight (granted, not to such an extreme as the fire wave). Pretty outrageous in stages with low ceiling clearance, but also pretty useless in comparison to his other rage.


I do realize the ton of work that was put into this and for the most the Unholy mod is done very well and holds a special little place in my folder as my favorite and the nuttiest mod in the history of ever, but in the hands of an even slightly competent player or AI Sampi is one of the bosses that basically prompts me to put down my keyboard and watch the chaos unfold; so at the very least I can thank my lucky stars he isn't seen much.